If you had $5 to $8 grand what would you buy?

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bobberboy

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Last Tuesday we had a dusting of snow that I swept off the sidewalk. The next morning I looked out the window and noticed there was a wet spot on the walk I hadn't seen the day before. I hadn't put any ice melter on the walk so there was only one other possibility. I went out to confirm it and sure enough, the water stop-box at the sidewalk was leaking. The water was bubbling up from about six feet under the boulevard. I dug a little trench to divert the water from the walk into the gutter and called the city. A guy came out to confirm and flagged the location of the stop-box. It was the day before Thanksgiving and he told us that we'd hear from someone the following Monday. He also told us that we were now one among 42 locations in the city with leaking water lines.

In the mean time the trickle became a small stream and with temps on Thanksgiving at 0° the water in the gutter was freezing. By mid-day the ice was almost to the center line on the street. We called the city to express our concern it was becoming a safety issue and before long trucks were spreading salt and trying to clear the gutter so the water could run to the storm sewer. We're about mid way on the block so it was a pretty big mess. Over the course of a few days the city spread enough salt to make an inland sea in front of our house (look honey, is that a beluga whale?).

This continued through the weekend and on Monday morning the pay-loader finally showed up to get real with the ice. In about an hours' time the operator scraped up a truckload of ice. Then a very nice man from the city stopped by to confirm what was going on and explain what was next. The city will contact about a dozen contractors for bids and give us a choice of the three lowest. Expected cost - $5,000 to $8,000! I was so stunned I couldn't even become outraged. The very nice man explained that in 1991 the city transferred ownership of the water line to the home owner. As the home owner we own the water line to the main so we pay for all - digging, replacement of the water line and street repair. We are also required to replace any remaining lead pipe with copper.

That's my tale of woe. Could have bought a nice boat for that money, or a large TV (not as big as Jim is getting though!). Could have taken a vacation to someplace pretty warm and had enough $ left over to get some new fishing stuff. I'm doing my best to keep an "is what it is" mindset, because it is and there's nothing I can do about it. It's hard though.

Oh, forgot to mention - the reason it took the very nice man till Monday to get here is that he is the only person in the city (our population is about 400,000) who does this job. No one else will do it. By the time he arrived at 10 on Monday he'd already been at 3 other houses to deliver bad news. He said it's all he does. Arrives, confirms, dispenses bad news and goes on to the next house. I almost felt sorrier for him than myself.

I know how much everyone likes pics...I took it through the window as it was +1°.

 
That's gotta suck, especially with Xmas just around the corner. Seems a bit strange to me though that they say you own water lines that aren't actually on your own property. Around here, the city owns everything from the water main up to and including the water meter. The home owner owns and is responsible for the water line from the meter to the house. That's usually not more than 40-50' of ¾-1" copper or poly water line and that line is only buried about 18" deep. So anyone that's slightly handy with plumbing could rent a trencher and replace their own line for a grand total of probably not more than a few hundred bucks and a few hours worth of work. Good luck with yours and I hope you get lucky with the cost being on the bottom end of the scale.

BTW are they gonna try to stick you with the cost of all that water that was lost?
 
Absurd. How can you be responsible for lines that run underneath a **** street? Tell them since you apparently own the street it will now become a toll road. Would be nice if you had the money to burn and hired a lawyer to sue the city. I would bet a good lawyer would win and send a message.
 
JMichael said:
That's gotta suck, especially with Xmas just around the corner. Seems a bit strange to me though that they say you own water lines that aren't actually on your own property. Around here, the city owns everything from the water main up to and including the water meter. The home owner owns and is responsible for the water line from the meter to the house. That's usually not more than 40-50' of ¾-1" copper or poly water line and that line is only buried about 18" deep. So anyone that's slightly handy with plumbing could rent a trencher and replace their own line for a grand total of probably not more than a few hundred bucks and a few hours worth of work. Good luck with yours and I hope you get lucky with the cost being on the bottom end of the scale.

BTW are they gonna try to stick you with the cost of all that water that was lost?

I agree on all accounts. It does suck and I don't quite understand about the homeowner owning the line to the main. I'm trying to make myself feel better knowing that by making the homeowner responsible for the total cost that the property taxes are lower. Frankly, right about now I'd go for a little higher property tax bill so that my fellow citizens would be helping to pay the expense. In the end it's a "you can pay me now or you can pay me later" kind of deal. Because of the severe cold we can get here the line is about 6' deep so it takes a backhoe and a steel cage to prevent cave ins. Not what a typical homeowner has in the garage. We are only charged for the water that comes through the meter which is in the house (the meter, not the water!). And we aren't charged for the many hours the city has spent keeping the road safe.

If Jim hadn't made this a family rated web site I'd go on...
 
RiverBottomOutdoors said:
Absurd. How can you be responsible for lines that run underneath a **** street? Tell them since you apparently own the street it will now become a toll road. Would be nice if you had the money to burn and hired a lawyer to sue the city. I would bet a good lawyer would win and send a message.

Thanks for your sense of outrage. I'm still too shocked to have found mine. All good questions. I don't know. I like the toll road idea but I'd have to also maintain the 40' piece of road. I don't get it either.
 
bobberboy said:
RiverBottomOutdoors said:
Absurd. How can you be responsible for lines that run underneath a **** street? Tell them since you apparently own the street it will now become a toll road. Would be nice if you had the money to burn and hired a lawyer to sue the city. I would bet a good lawyer would win and send a message.

Thanks for your sense of outrage. I'm still too shocked to be up to have found mine. All good questions. I don't know. I like the toll road idea but I'd have to also maintain the 40' piece of road. I don't get it either.
Unfortunately the sense of moral outrage is only going to get you a case of sore feet from romping' and stomping' about something that is a done deal. If the city deeded the line and the responsibility for it to you, it's yours. Period !! They don't have a guy on the payroll giving out bad news to folks as his job description just so they can defend against the lawsuits. The laws are different in every municipality and if you're a land or homeowner, you really need to know what they are in relation to your property ownership. If you buy a property with an existing easement, you are buying the easement too. Same thing with the zoning and real estate laws where you own property.

Unfortunately, your response of stunned silence and sad resignation is really your only viable option. You really can't fight City Hall. :(

BTW - I'd take 10 days of fishing and diving on Cat Island in the Bahamas with the 5-8 grand !!! So, you certainly have my condolences !!!
 
Since you own the pipes to the main, I would tell them that you prefer to have water running down the street and that you are not going to fix it. If they insist it be fixed, tell them to pay for it themselves or donate to the cause. When all of the donations are received then you will fix it. Probably won't work, but worth a shot.
 
Bobber,

If I had $5k to $8k;

I'd spend it on two airline tickets to Dallas, Texas, for you and the Mrs. You would have a rental car awaiting. Then, I'd pay for you a really nice rental cabin and boat on Lake Fork for about a month. You could do all the bass fishing you could stand, all the while being close to shopping for the Mrs.

It would get you out of the extreme cold, and perhaps take a load off a weary mind. Having said that, it would only cost about $3k, so I would send the rest up north for your water to be fixed, while you and the Mrs. were having a nice warm month long vacation.

That's what I would do. Truly. But since I don't have it, I'll be praying. All things are possible with Him!

Keith
 
So, a little good news. The water main is on my side of the street and that means about 18' less street to dig up if it had been on the other. That keeps me closer to the lower end of the estimate. Supposed to have bids in a day or two. Trying to keep up a good attitude.
 
so if you own it that means you can fix it yourself. It is pretty typical that once it leaves the mainline it becomes your problem.
 
We are responsible to the sidewalk valve which is underneath the sidewalk of course. Having to dig up the street should not be a homeowners cost but old neighborhoods made mistakes like that when they were developed. Of course this always happens in winter weather because of all the freezing and thawing.
Tim
 
earl60446 said:
We are responsible to the sidewalk valve which is underneath the sidewalk of course. Having to dig up the street should not be a homeowners cost but old neighborhoods made mistakes like that when they were developed. Of course this always happens in winter weather because of all the freezing and thawing.
Tim

I don't remember the details but in 1991 the city "transferred" ownership of the line to the owner. I think is was an effort of the city council to appear to have lowered property taxes. I believe this way the cost of individual owners' water problems were directed to the owner - not shared by the community. If the city doesn't have to pay for the hole in the street presumably that savings would be seen in lower property taxes overall. I think it's BS frankly. No one on or running for council would ever propose to change it back as it would undoubtedly raise taxes.
 
You did right by replacing it all at once.
Mine started with the line between the curb stop and the house. Got it replaced, along with the curb stop valve. Two years later, it's leaking again. Contractor dug down to find the line between the main and the curb stop was rotted and broken. Had it repaired, and two years later, it's flowing again, out in the street. Yep, my line, rotting further back again, and the main runs on the far side of the street from the house. Had them replace the whole run from the main to the curb stop that time. Four foot square hole in the concrete on the far side, with a matching one on "my" side, and they attached new line to the old and pulled it in horizontally. Still, over the course of the four years, I've got about 9 or 10 grand in it.
Isn't it interesting that at about the end of the expected lifespan of the galvanized steel feeders that they buried way back when, they transfer ownership to the property owner?

Roger
 
bobberboy said:
Didn't dodge the bullet but it wasn't fatal either...$5400.00. The highest bid was an incredible $9000! Oh my.

Make sure you know and understand your towns regulations on required repairs to any sidewalk or street you dig up or damage going under it. Some towns require the patch to be smooth and not a bump in the roadway. Ask the low bid how the finished job will look and ALWAYS insist on and be certain that your contractor gets all the proper permits and has the finished job inspected by the local inspector.

Good luck. :)
 
DocWatson said:
bobberboy said:
Didn't dodge the bullet but it wasn't fatal either...$5400.00. The highest bid was an incredible $9000! Oh my.

Make sure you know and understand your towns regulations on required repairs to any sidewalk or street you dig up or damage going under it. Some towns require the patch to be smooth and not a bump in the roadway. Ask the low bid how the finished job will look and ALWAYS insist on and be certain that your contractor gets all the proper permits and has the finished job inspected by the local inspector.

Good luck. :)

Thanks. The way it's going to work is that the city will hire the contractor now that we've chosen the bid. The guy at the city told us he always recommends taking the lowest bid because they all have to do exactly the same work. The city will take care of all - hiring, inspecting the work from start to finish including riding herd on the contractor. We only need to sign the check. I think this is a good system as people generally don't have experiences dealing with contractors. The city is really involved every step of the way - except for ownership of the dang line!
 

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