Lath & Plaster Ceiling

My daughter asked if I would install recessed lighting in her house. It has wood lath & plaster ceilings. I have a fair amount of experience installing retrofit cans in drywall ceilings, but never in lath & plaster. From the research I've done I suppose I will need to cut through the plaster layers with a masonry hole saw then through the wood lath with something else (I'm thinking multi-tool). From what I've read it sounds like I will be lucky to get clean holes without cracking the ceiling.

I got to thinking there could be folks on TinBoats that might have some pointers on doing this. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Larry

They make a 6" 5" and 4" hole saws for installing can lights, I would think that should work.
You can also get LED lights that install in a octagon box.

I have installed 6 ceiling fans and maybe a dozen or so recessed lights
in plaster ceilings . . . the most recent was a ceiling fan last month.

I use a jig saw with a masonry blade with no problems.
The only thing I am critical about is putting NO weight on the hole in the plaster.
ensure all weight is supported by the correct bracing that the item calls for.
unless you have a dozen or more lights to install, there is no reason to invest
in a $80 carbide hole cutter when the jig saw will work just as well.
and you don't need several tools to do this. . . . one 4" jig saw blade cuts through
the plaster, drywall and lath all in one step. a Sawzall (recip saw) will work just as well).
depending on the age of the house, you may run into some metal lath also in the mix.
whether it be from the original construction or from repairs made years ago.
start with a 1/2" drilled hole on the edge of the circle and proceed like you would in plywood.
plaster walls and ceilings are normally 1/2 - 3/4" thick plaster over 1/2" drywall or wood lath.
so you are looking at approximately 1 to 1-1/2" of material - with the plaster being the toughest.
if you are already experienced with cutting holes in drywall ceilings,
you know what a mess it makes - so wear the appropriate eye and respiratory protection.
even though plaster is as hard as concrete, it will chip easily so go slow.

and I am speaking from experience - not just shooting from the hip.


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What he said, the hole saw will do 1 or 2 great then gets too dull. Wears the teeth out. Prepare for mess and get at it.

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm told it is lath/plaster. I will be driving down tomorrow to reconnoiter this and some other projects, scratch my head, make a shopping list, etc. Her place is about 6 hours from me. I figure I'll be making a couple of trips and spending some time there to get everything done. Going to cut into the fishing time but it is great to still be needed and of course I'm happy to help her save some $$$ while I still can.

I am familiar with the mess. For drywall, I use one of those double fly-cutter style hole saws with a debris bowl. Won't be able to do that if I use a jig saw. Another issue I hadn't thought of is the standard retrofit cans I would normally pick up at the big box store are designed for 1/2" ceiling thickness. It looks like those clips are not going to work on these thicker ceilings. Apparently there are some housings made for thicker plaster ceilings. Either way, I need to get moving on this. She has scheduled the old hardwood floors to be refinished soon. I want to get this done prior to the floors.

Shoulders are starting to hurt just thinking about this. haha.

Larry - maybe I was born way too late in life, but I have always had a fondness
for plaster in the older homes. of course drywall has been the ticket since the '60s.
I just like the look, feel, character and sound deadening of plaster.
I have been shoulder to shoulder with some the Old School Masters making
repairs to cracked and failing plaster on lath and it is awesome to watch these guys work.
I just bought a 1957 cinder block Florida home that has plaster on every conceivable surface.
it must be on a very sound foundation as there are no cracks on the walls and one very long
crack in the ceiling that goes through 3 rooms. which probably scared off many potential buyers before me.
in a few months, it should all be like it was back in 1957 with all the 21st Century entities.

Good Luck in your project !! Drive Safe and take some photos. (I love the "vintage" DIY projects).


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Well, it isn't lath and plaster. Instead it is plaster over that fiberboard stuff (see photo below). The really good news is they have a contractor currently removing an interior fireplace and wall and doing several other things in the house. He says he will have one of his guys punch out all of the holes for us at no charge!! This is huge because they want a total of 21 recessed lights in the various rooms. Now all I have to do is install some cans and electrical. The other really good news is attic access is fantastic. Sometimes things just all work out.

I suspect I'll be back next week to get the lights installed. Then a few weeks later I'll be back to throw in new baseboard and trim. After that will be some fun family bonding while painting the inside. Haha.

Tip the guy making the holes.

Out of curiosity, how old is the home? Do you have any concerns re asbestos?

the home I just bought is a 1957 model and it has plaster throughout
on walls and ceilings - the pre-purchase home inspector said there was
no lead or asbestos in this one. (plaster containing asbestos was manufactured between 1942 and 1974)
I would imagine that in the '50s and '60s, "residential plaster" did not have to have
a stiffener or binder such as asbestos as it is mostly cement, sand and lime.
but you just never know what someone did back then with no regulations or inspectors like we have now.


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mtntop said:

Out of curiosity, how old is the home? Do you have any concerns re asbestos?

Click to expand...

Built in 1947. Yep, asbestos wrapped ducts. Already removed by the asbestos abatement guys. I should add the stuff they found was considered non-friable. I suspect lead based paint also, but of course there are about 20 layers of paint. All woodwork is being removed by the contractor currently working in the place. I will be installing new trim and baseboards.

Kind of interesting to see how these old places were built. 2x lumber is actually 2" thick. Somewhere along the line the kitchen was remodeled. It is in pretty decent shape but there is no outside venting for the microwave range hood. That has been added to my list of things. Good news is access in the attic and crawlspace is about as good as it can get. Looks like my "jobs" won't start until later this month.

Johnny said:

the home I just bought is a 1957 model and it has plaster throughout
on walls and ceilings - the pre-purchase home inspector said there was
no lead or asbestos in this one. (plaster containing asbestos was manufactured between 1942 and 1974)
I would imagine that in the '50s and '60s, "residential plaster" did not have to have
a stiffener or binder such as asbestos as it is mostly cement, sand and lime.
but you just never know what someone did back then with no regulations or inspectors like we have now.


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Click to expand...

Couple of years ago I remodeled a kitchen in a friend's 1950's house. The old kitchen was built-in-place birch cabinets. It was kind of interesting taking the old cabinets apart piece by piece. I kind of get the allure of plaster. Likely it is going to become a lost art. But I got to say I think I prefer the convenience of drywall. Guess I'm spoiled.

Drove down to Los Angeles and spent the last day and a half pulling a lot of wiring through the attic and installing 21 recessed light cans. Luckily, the attic has a lot of head room. I'm 6-4 and can stand up. Unfortunately, the attic gets just a little "toasty" in the middle of an August day in Los Angeles. I did a lot of that work in the evening and early morning.

21 like this. Glad it is over and I can get back on the water.

dontcha just love it when your plan comes together ?
I know your daughter is very pleased with you !! (and proud).

Johnny said:

dontcha just love it when your plan comes together ?
I know your daughter is very pleased with you !! (and proud).

Click to expand...

It isn't unusual to encounter all kinds of hiccups on projects like this. This time things went unusually smooth. Hope that holds for future projects.

The price for a house in Southern California is nuts. I'm glad I can do some things to help save a few $$. My youngest son is taking some time off so he and I can head back down in the next week or so to install new trim and baseboards. After that it is going to be a family-wide painting party.

I have three sons and one daughter. I tell her I'm doing this for her only because she is my favorite daughter! LOL.

Well, phase two didn't go quite as well as we would have liked. Working in 105 deg temps & no A/C slows me down considerably. Also had a lot of those "while you are at it" things pop up which slowed us down. We managed to get door casings and baseboards installed. Ran out of time before we could trim out the windows. The contractor is letting us pay one of his guys to wrap it up, so it will get done without me having to drive back down. Sorry, no pic's this time.

Haven't' been able to hit the lake for about 3 weeks now. We are hearing that even with the hot weather trout fishing has been hot at Lake Camanche. Temps forecasted over the weekend are 108 - 112 and fall off to 101 on Monday. We will go on Monday. We will hit the lake early, get early limits and be off before it gets hot -- that is our plan and we are sticking to it!

Anyway, thanks for letting me blabber on.