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BigTerp

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Falling Waters, WV
Ever since I sold my Dads old 12' tin and trolling motor last summer I've been searching for a bigger boat. I have potomac river access with a boat ramp in my subdivision that we moved into last year, so a boat was definitely high on the priority list. Searching craigslist had been rather frustrating. Most 14 footers with trailer and small outboard were going for well over $1000. Didn't seem worth it to me, and I really wanted a 16'. I finally found an ad for a16' with trailer but no pictures. Took the chance yesterday and made the 30 minute drive to check it out. Bought it on the spot for $600. It's a '95 Tracker Sportsman 16' with like new '06 Valu-Line trailer. 48" bottom width I believe, not really sure exactly where I should measure this at. Across the top of the transom? Needs cleaned up, but thats part of buying a used boat. I think I got a pretty good deal. I plan to use it for fishing and duck hunting the potomac. Planning on a front deck with room for battery storage and dry storage. Want to remove the middle seat for an open floor plan. I'm planning on using all aluminum for my build with hydroturf or something similar for the deck/floor covering, no carpet!!! This should give me room for 3 seats. One on the deck, one on the open floor and the captains seat. I know I have alot of work ahead of me, but couldn't be more excited. Hoping to have it done and ready by the spring. Let me know what you guys think.
 

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Well, since you asked what we think :) . . . maybe I'll take another look at this 18' Starcraft aluminum project with an unknown 150HP Mercury fuel injected motor and Dilly trailer for $695
 

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You won't be doing yourself any favors by removing the middle bench, it's a structural member of your boat.


PATRIOT2 said:
Well, since you asked what we think :) . . . maybe I'll take another look at this 18' Starcraft aluminum project with an unknown 150HP Mercury fuel injected motor and Dilly trailer for $695

You will recieves deliveries of thee boat when your cheque clears the Gold Coast Bank in Nigeria.
 
My mistake, I paid $600 for the whole deal. Stupid phone!!! I'll correct my OP.

As far as removing the middle seat, I appreciate the advice but I've seen plenty of mods where guys remove it. I'm planning a deck made from aluminum angle and sheet all the way to the front of the existing bench. Should be plenty sturdy after removing the bench.
 
PATRIOT2 said:
Well, since you asked what we think :) . . . maybe I'll take another look at this 18' Starcraft aluminum project with an unknown 150HP Mercury fuel injected motor and Dilly trailer for $695

Not really sure how that pertains to this thread. Looks like quite the project either way.
 
BigTerp said:
As far as removing the middle seat, I appreciate the advice but I've seen plenty of mods where guys remove it.

Yeah, I call those guys "Lemmings" or "Monkey see, monkey do".

If you're going to deck it, why not start the deck at the back of the middle bench and go to the bow. You can just deck over the bench and still have lots of room for storage below deck.

Your bench stays in, your structure isn't compromised, you get a big deck and plenty of storage.
 
jigngrub said:
BigTerp said:
As far as removing the middle seat, I appreciate the advice but I've seen plenty of mods where guys remove it.

Yeah, I call those guys "Lemmings" or "Monkey see, monkey do".

If you're going to deck it, why not start the deck at the back of the middle bench and go to the bow. You can just deck over the bench and still have lots of room for storage below deck.

Your bench stays in, your structure isn't compromised, you get a big deck and plenty of storage.

Fair enough. And I'm sure my plans will change numerous times as I get further into my build. My reasoning for removing the middle bench is to open the floor up with room for a removable pin mounted seat. I also do not want a huge deck, but one big enough for another pin mounted seat with room underneath for battery storage, dry storage, etc. If I was using this as a bass boat I would probably deck it all the way to the middle bench and leave the bench. But this boat will be used mainly for catfishing and duck/goose hunting, so a huge casting deck is not what I'm going for. I'd be much more comfortable catfishing at night from a low floor rather than a high deck. There are ribs directly in front of and behind the existing bench, these won't provide enough support after removal? I could add a brace on each side after removing the bench as well, if structural integrity will be compromised that much. Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate it!!
 
devilmutt said:
$600 would be a great deal in my area.

I thought the same. I'd been saving for what I thought was going to be a well over $1000 purchase. I've even seen 12 footers with trailer and dinky outboard going for over $1000. I was almost ready to settle on getting a 14' when this one popped up on craigslist. I'm 6'8" 250lbs, so I wanted to go as big as I could afford.
 
I like it, and I think it's a good deal. What's more important is if YOU are happy with the deal and the boat. I would look at adjusting (lowering) the bow roller to get the hull to rest on the trailer evenly. From the pictures, it looks like she's sitting a little high in the front? I would leave the transom alone unless it was absolutely necessary to replace it. It looks like it is in good condition. I've never removed a bench seat, so I will leave that one alone. A little pressure washing should sparkle her right up. What is your plan for propulsion?
 
Terp,

Answers in quote in red.

BigTerp said:
48" bottom width I believe, not really sure exactly where I should measure this at. Across the top of the transom?
Bottom width means bottom width. Measure across the bottom of the boat at the rear is the generally accepted method.

Needs cleaned up, but thats part of buying a used boat.
Yes, it is.

I think I got a pretty good deal.
At least a reasonable deal for the time of year and the area. Not having to do a lot of trailer repairs makes things better.

Planning on a front deck with room for battery storage and dry storage.
Look through a lot of the builds that have been done on this forum. You'll see good and bad ideas on how to go about what you want to do.

Want to remove the middle seat for an open floor plan.
This is something you can do as long as you realize what the purpose (other than seating) of the seat is. The bench seat, from an engineering standpoint, provides both lateral strength to the bottom of the boat and pulls in the sides.

If you want to remove it, you can, but you will need to replace that lateral strength and pull the sides in using another method. Adding additional support (ribs on the bottom of the boat if needed or decking riveted down) and straps to pull the sides in. You can easily do this if you spend a bit of time thinking about how to do so in your boat.

It's not monkey see, monkey do(Which is copying and may be a bad idea if they didn't replicate the original engineering with another method). It's simply re-engineering the structural engineering using another method. A folded "box" seat is a very simple method of gaining structural strength.

Note: If you run enough "straps" down the side parallel to one another, you can use them as bracketing to make rod storage/mounting, side panel mounting, etc. What you can do is limited only by your imagination. So don't hesitate to remove a seat, just do so with the knowledge you should replace the structure provided by the seats with alternative structure if you wish the boat to be solid.


I'm planning on using all aluminum for my build with hydroturf or something similar for the deck/floor covering, no carpet!!!
All aluminum is a good thing, but make sure you have the ability to install it yourself. Around my area, aluminum fabricators charge 50 bucks an hour and this gets expensive after a bit.

I was going to use aluminum for my transom, but installation costs for the welding were estimated at $650.00, so I'm going back to exterior plywood sealed and painted. If you can drill and rivet, you can save a great deal of money. Don't be afraid to use exterior plywood properly sealed and covered with something like Grizzly grip. It's a bit less expensive if you're on a tight budget. Hardware and "stuff" can eat up money like a piranha eats an elephant in the river. One little bite at a time, but oh so many bites.

BTW, properly sealed, if you want maximum longevity, is using epoxy resin, drilling out your holes over size, then using sawdust/epoxy resin mixture to plug the oversize hole, then drilling proper size hole in the plug, then using 5200 or similar sealants where hardware/rivets go through to minimize water effects/access.

Hydro turf is expensive. I suggest if cost is a consideration, you look at Grizzly Grip. Less expensive and fairly easy to install, as long as you take the time to do the prep work. Also nice and easy to wash.

I think you have a nice little project ahead of you, but it's definitely do-able the way you envision it. How about posting it up in the conversion/restoration forum so folks can follow the build and help you along the way. Your pics will help the next guy along as well.
 
Tin Yachtsman said:
I like it, and I think it's a good deal. What's more important is if YOU are happy with the deal and the boat. I would look at adjusting (lowering) the bow roller to get the hull to rest on the trailer evenly. From the pictures, it looks like she's sitting a little high in the front? I would leave the transom alone unless it was absolutely necessary to replace it. It looks like it is in good condition. I've never removed a bench seat, so I will leave that one alone. A little pressure washing should sparkle her right up. What is your plan for propulsion?

AAHHH, yeah she does sit a bit high in the front on the trailer. I'll be sure to adjust the bow roller. Thanks. The transom does seem to be in decent shape, but looks like it would be a breeze to replace compared to the headaches I've seen alot of other guys have to deal with. I'm not 100% sure on what I'm going to do, but I'm leaning towards replacing it now so I won't have to later down the road. I'm in the market for a 25hp tiller. And yes, I pressure washed her Sunday. Made quite the difference!!!
 
DaveInGA said:
Terp,

Answers in quote in red.

BigTerp said:
48" bottom width I believe, not really sure exactly where I should measure this at. Across the top of the transom?
Bottom width means bottom width. Measure across the bottom of the boat at the rear is the generally accepted method.

Needs cleaned up, but thats part of buying a used boat.
Yes, it is.

I think I got a pretty good deal.
At least a reasonable deal for the time of year and the area. Not having to do a lot of trailer repairs makes things better.

Planning on a front deck with room for battery storage and dry storage.
Look through a lot of the builds that have been done on this forum. You'll see good and bad ideas on how to go about what you want to do.

Want to remove the middle seat for an open floor plan.
This is something you can do as long as you realize what the purpose (other than seating) of the seat is. The bench seat, from an engineering standpoint, provides both lateral strength to the bottom of the boat and pulls in the sides.

If you want to remove it, you can, but you will need to replace that lateral strength and pull the sides in using another method. Adding additional support (ribs on the bottom of the boat if needed or decking riveted down) and straps to pull the sides in. You can easily do this if you spend a bit of time thinking about how to do so in your boat.

It's not monkey see, monkey do(Which is copying and may be a bad idea if they didn't replicate the original engineering with another method). It's simply re-engineering the structural engineering using another method. A folded "box" seat is a very simple method of gaining structural strength.

Note: If you run enough "straps" down the side parallel to one another, you can use them as bracketing to make rod storage/mounting, side panel mounting, etc. What you can do is limited only by your imagination. So don't hesitate to remove a seat, just do so with the knowledge you should replace the structure provided by the seats with alternative structure if you wish the boat to be solid.


I'm planning on using all aluminum for my build with hydroturf or something similar for the deck/floor covering, no carpet!!!
All aluminum is a good thing, but make sure you have the ability to install it yourself. Around my area, aluminum fabricators charge 50 bucks an hour and this gets expensive after a bit.

I was going to use aluminum for my transom, but installation costs for the welding were estimated at $650.00, so I'm going back to exterior plywood sealed and painted. If you can drill and rivet, you can save a great deal of money. Don't be afraid to use exterior plywood properly sealed and covered with something like Grizzly grip. It's a bit less expensive if you're on a tight budget. Hardware and "stuff" can eat up money like a piranha eats an elephant in the river. One little bite at a time, but oh so many bites.

BTW, properly sealed, if you want maximum longevity, is using epoxy resin, drilling out your holes over size, then using sawdust/epoxy resin mixture to plug the oversize hole, then drilling proper size hole in the plug, then using 5200 or similar sealants where hardware/rivets go through to minimize water effects/access.

Hydro turf is expensive. I suggest if cost is a consideration, you look at Grizzly Grip. Less expensive and fairly easy to install, as long as you take the time to do the prep work. Also nice and easy to wash.

I think you have a nice little project ahead of you, but it's definitely do-able the way you envision it. How about posting it up in the conversion/restoration forum so folks can follow the build and help you along the way. Your pics will help the next guy along as well.

Thanks for all the detiled responses!! I cleaned her up yesterday and will start a build thread with those results instead of clogging up this forum. I've read through a ton of build threads in the past few weeks and am looking to use aluminum angle as bracing for my bow deck and aluminum sheet for the deck/floor. I plan to rivet the deck to the angle and the angle to the hull/ribs, but use stainless stell screws for the floor for easier removal in case there is a need for inner hull repair. My buddy, who will be helping a ton with this build, is a mechanical engineer so hopefully he can help me come up with some ideas to keep the structual integrity of the boat sound after removing the middle bench. I'm planning on using aluminum sheet up to the gunnel from the bow deck all the way back to the rear bench attached to the ribs and floor. Similar to what caveman did with his build. I would think this would help with some of the structural loss from removing the middle bench, right? When I say all aluminum that only goes for the framing, deck and floor. If/when I replace the transom I'll be using exterior plywood coated with spar urethane. Yeah, hydroturf is on the expensive side but would be a really nice addition. If the budget allows I'll try and use that on the deck/floor and grizzly grip on the aluminum sheet covering the gunwales just to keep it from being bare aluminum.

This is getting way to detailed so I'll be sure to move it over to a build thread. Thanks again for the response!!
 
BigTerp said:
Thanks for all the detailed responses!!
You're welcome.

I cleaned her up yesterday and will start a build thread with those results instead of clogging up this forum.
Good idea, please be sure and post pics of everything you got going on and put a link to the build in your signature.

I've read through a ton of build threads in the past few weeks and am looking to use aluminum angle as bracing for my bow deck and aluminum sheet for the deck/floor.
Smart on your part to read through the threads.

I plan to rivet the deck to the angle and the angle to the hull/ribs, but use stainless stell screws for the floor for easier removal in case there is a need for inner hull repair.
You might want to fill the cleaned hull with some water to check for leaks before doing too much work to save yourself effort later on. About the the screws: I'm currently working with both rivets and some stainless steel screws (from the boat's manufacture, I saved them). Here's my findings: The screws (any stainless steel I have purchased and I have purchased a bunch.) is a lot more expensive than buying a bunch of aluminum rivets. Closed end/blind pop rivets are just as easy to remove and you can use a lot more to secure your deck due to cost savings. My vote is get a good heavy duty rivet tool (Here's a link to a very reasonably priced one I own and am using on my build now: https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy...and-riveter-with-collection-bottle-66422.html) and keep some extra rivets and tool after the build is done for any later repairs if needed. You'll come out a great deal cheaper this way.

My buddy, who will be helping a ton with this build, is a mechanical engineer so hopefully he can help me come up with some ideas to keep the structual integrity of the boat sound after removing the middle bench. I'm planning on using aluminum sheet up to the gunnel from the bow deck all the way back to the rear bench attached to the ribs and floor. Similar to what caveman did with his build. I would think this would help with some of the structural loss from removing the middle bench, right?
Let your buddy come up with the engineer solutions for you. His education has everything in it to help you maintain the structural integrity while modifying the boat.

When I say all aluminum that only goes for the framing, deck and floor. If/when I replace the transom I'll be using exterior plywood coated with spar urethane.
If you're going to use aluminum decking, consider using epoxy resin and paint instead of spar urethane to maximize transom life to go with your decking. Not that much more expensive. If you can find an aluminum welder cheap (I haven't been able to.), consider aluminum for the transom. For me though, it was $650.00 labor for the aluminum transom vs. a plywood transom I could do myself for $21.00 in plywood and $65.00 in epoxy resin delivered to my door.https://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetail.php?prod=E_kit_3qt

Yeah, hydroturf is on the expensive side but would be a really nice addition.
Durability is somewhat an issue too. I looked at it real hard, but the cost vs. longevity for fishing nixed it for me.

If the budget allows I'll try and use that on the deck/floor and grizzly grip on the aluminum sheet covering the gunwales just to keep it from being bare aluminum.
Not a bad idea.

This is getting way to detailed so I'll be sure to move it over to a build thread. Thanks again for the response!!
 
DaveInGA said:
BigTerp said:
I plan to rivet the deck to the angle and the angle to the hull/ribs, but use stainless stell screws for the floor for easier removal in case there is a need for inner hull repair.
You might want to fill the cleaned hull with some water to check for leaks before doing too much work to save yourself effort later on. About the the screws: I'm currently working with both rivets and some stainless steel screws (from the boat's manufacture, I saved them). Here's my findings: The screws (any stainless steel I have purchased and I have purchased a bunch.) is a lot more expensive than buying a bunch of aluminum rivets. Closed end/blind pop rivets are just as easy to remove and you can use a lot more to secure your deck due to cost savings. My vote is get a good heavy duty rivet tool (Here's a link to a very reasonably priced one I own and am using on my build now: https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy...and-riveter-with-collection-bottle-66422.html) and keep some extra rivets and tool after the build is done for any later repairs if needed. You'll come out a great deal cheaper this way.

Yes, I'm planning a thorough leak test this weekend. Thanks for the heads up on the rivets. The only reason I was planning on using stainless screws was for ease of removal in case I needed to pull up the floor for any reason. But if drilling out rivets isn't that big of a deal, I'd rather go that route. Should be more secure with rivets as well as cheaper, like you said. How well does that rivet tool get into tight places? I'm just thinking of when I'm riveting my angle bracing things might get a little tight.

When I say all aluminum that only goes for the framing, deck and floor. If/when I replace the transom I'll be using exterior plywood coated with spar urethane.
If you're going to use aluminum decking, consider using epoxy resin and paint instead of spar urethane to maximize transom life to go with your decking. Not that much more expensive. If you can find an aluminum welder cheap (I haven't been able to.), consider aluminum for the transom. For me though, it was $650.00 labor for the aluminum transom vs. a plywood transom I could do myself for $21.00 in plywood and $65.00 in epoxy resin delivered to my door.https://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetail.php?prod=E_kit_3qt

The more I looked into this I realized that epoxy resin is the way to go. Thanks for the link, cheaper than what I was thinking. When I replace the transom should I go with rivets there aswell? The previous owner had a transducer mounted to the bottom of the stern with screws that are now rusted. In order to get them out I'll have to remove a few solid rivets below the water line as well as add rivets to the old screw holes. So I'll be getting a rivet setting tool for my air hammer for solid rivets. I should be using solid rivets here as opposed to closed end/blind pop rivets, right?

Yeah, hydroturf is on the expensive side but would be a really nice addition.
Durability is somewhat an issue too. I looked at it real hard, but the cost vs. longevity for fishing nixed it for me.

Are you using grizzly girp on your decks? If so, how comfortable is it on the feet and hands? I want something that is fairly comfortable yet durable and easy to clean up since I'll also be hunting out of this boat as well as fishing. Also how would this be applied? Would it be applied first then the aluminum sheet riveted down, or riveted down and then applied over the sheet and rivets?

Thanks for the help!!!
 

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