The transformation...

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baseball_guy_99

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Jun 25, 2010
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Location
Foristell, MO
I went back through and read my rebuild thread. It's crazy how much your imagination and the help of friends (tinboats.net!!!!) can transform something so bland and ugly into something useful and good looking.

Here is my transformation, now lets see your before and afters.
 

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jigngrub said:
You'll regret removing that middle bench if you own that boat for a few more years.


whys that? its got plenty of support imo.... way more than mine and its fine.. and if im seein it right it was only attached up by the gunwales and not the sides or floor so really i see no difference in structural support loss...but like i said thats just my opinion..
 
shawnfish said:
jigngrub said:
You'll regret removing that middle bench if you own that boat for a few more years.


whys that? its got plenty of support imo.... way more than mine and its fine.. and if im seein it right it was only attached up by the gunwales and not the sides or floor so really i see no difference in structural support loss...but like i said thats just my opinion..

I agree, It gives you so much more space in the boat. If you want another seat or two in the boat, you can buy some pedestals and mount some seats on them. Great job on the boat though!!
 
shawnfish said:
jigngrub said:
You'll regret removing that middle bench if you own that boat for a few more years.


whys that? its got plenty of support imo.... way more than mine and its fine.. and if im seein it right it was only attached up by the gunwales and not the sides or floor so really i see no difference in structural support loss...but like i said thats just my opinion..

BB 99 and you will see what I mean eventually, just give it some time.
 
Shawnfish, it is a '75. I'll post up some more pics when I get home from work. And you are correct, it was only "attached" at the top. It was only resting in place because when we flipped the boat over to paint it, it just fell out. And I do have 2 seat bases mounted in the floor and plan to add another to the front deck for a butt seat.

Jigngrub, why don't you say why I will regret it instead of just saying wait and see?

My front deck supports come back almost to where the front of the seat was.
 
baseball_guy_99 said:
Jigngrub, why don't you say why I will regret it instead of just saying wait and see?

Would you believe me if I told you why? I doubt it, people never do.

Would you change anything if I told you why? I doubt that too because you aren't going to believe me.

The people that remove their benches don't have a clue about what they're doing to their boats, they think it'll be fine because they saw someone else do it... these people remind me of the fabled Lemmings.

People that remove their benches aren't naval architects/design engineers and haven't contacted their boat manufacturer to see if it's ok to do so.

Even though I'm tiring of it, I'll tell you why.
Look at the pictures of your boat, do you see those little skinny gunwales at the top of your sidewalls? They aren't designed to support your sidewalls for the distance you have between the front deck and the rear seat... that's why your middle bench was in there.

People think that just because their rivets don't loosen, their ribs don't crack, and the boat doesn't fold in half right away they're good to go with their bench removal.

BUT! Over time your rivets will loosen and your ribs will crack... and if you're caught in bad weather your boat could fold in half.

But don't take my word for it, just use your boat like you normally would and wait and see.
 
I'll take your word on it, but it's too late for me.

Does the front deck supports not add any structural integrity?

I wasn't saying that in my previous post to get you riled up, I was just curious as to why you just wouldn't say it.
 
baseball_guy_99 said:
I'll take your word on it, but it's too late for me.

Does the front deck supports not add any structural integrity?

I wasn't saying that in my previous post to get you riled up, I was just curious as to why you just wouldn't say it.

Nah, I'm not riled up. It's just that I've tried to explain this several times before on this forum and it always seems to fall on deaf ears.

It's not too late for your boat if you want to do a little more work on it. Just enlarge your front deck and bring it back to the middle of the boat where the middle bench was and put in a plywood bulkhead at the end of it. You can add some hatches and have a bunch of storage space below deck. It'll look nice and be functional too. Your boat will be stronger, will last forever, and you won't have to worry about any of the problems I mentioned above.
 
I plan on adding a bulkhead to the front deck.

I'll toy around with extending the front deck farther...but then there isn't much room for duck hunting out of it.
 
jigngrub said:
It's not too late for your boat if you want to do a little more work on it. Just enlarge your front deck and bring it back to the middle of the boat where the middle bench was and put in a plywood bulkhead at the end of it. You can add some hatches and have a bunch of storage space below deck. It'll look nice and be functional too. Your boat will be stronger, will last forever, and you won't have to worry about any of the problems I mentioned above.

Reinforcing removed structure isn't rocket science and doesn't take a marine architect to figure it out. You don't have to extend your decks back to where the bench was. What you do have to do is replace the support the seat was providing tying the two sides together. Here's a couple of ways to do just that without involving running additional decking:

1. This is the simpler approach - use "straps" that runs from the top of the side (or close to it) and over the top of the supports and attaches to your decking you've installed. This provides additional torsional support and pulls the sides "inwards," which is what the bench did to prevent rivet failure and rib cracking at joints. If you install several of these in parallel, you'll increase the strength and can mount siding to dress up your boat a bit and cover/hide your ribs and wiring, etc you have in the ribs. This is a perfectly good solution, particularly if you add the siding.

2. This is more complicated, but adds additional strength and storage as well - build a framework that works both to pull the boat hull sides "in" and to provide bracketing to form storage areas to each side of the boat, rod lockers or other such storage. Mount walls and a lid and you now have storage going down the sides. If you look at the boat bugpac has, you'll see something similar done with his boat, except instead of a framework, he used bent and welded "boxes" to accomplish the same thing.
 
yes, please... show us your before and after photos....i don't have a tinboat so i can't contribute... click my signature to see a pile of plywood that i transformed into a half-decent boat.
 
DaveInGA said:
Reinforcing removed structure isn't rocket science and doesn't take a marine architect to figure it out. You don't have to extend your decks back to where the bench was. What you do have to do is replace the support the seat was providing tying the two sides together. Here's a couple of ways to do just that without involving running additional decking:

1. This is the simpler approach - use "straps" that runs from the top of the side (or close to it) and over the top of the supports and attaches to your decking you've installed. This provides additional torsional support and pulls the sides "inwards," which is what the bench did to prevent rivet failure and rib cracking at joints. If you install several of these in parallel, you'll increase the strength and can mount siding to dress up your boat a bit and cover/hide your ribs and wiring, etc you have in the ribs. This is a perfectly good solution, particularly if you add the siding.

2. This is more complicated, but adds additional strength and storage as well - build a framework that works both to pull the boat hull sides "in" and to provide bracketing to form storage areas to each side of the boat, rod lockers or other such storage. Mount walls and a lid and you now have storage going down the sides. If you look at the boat bugpac has, you'll see something similar done with his boat, except instead of a framework, he used bent and welded "boxes" to accomplish the same thing.

1. Straps are less than desireable and pretty much useless if they are actual "straps" and not rigid suports. A strap only gives support one way, it'll keep the wall from flexing out but gives no support for being pushed in like the rigid bench did. Also a strap is only anchored with one, maybe 2 fasteners usually in 1" decking which isn't going to hold diddly... the same with rigid single member braces. Straps and single braces are usually installed at too steep of an angle to be effective, this is done to "save room" and to try to avoid the trip hazard.

2. Boxes and storage compartments are a good option and can be very effective for reinforcing a boats sidewalls.
Like on this 1988 Starcraft:
4-15-1220Finished_B.jpg

4-15-1220Finished_A.jpg

The box on the port side is a livewell and the one in front of the console is storage. These are factory installed.

3. Rigid solid braces ae another good option, like this:
DSC02176.jpg
 
Sorry to help derail this thread further, but I wanted to chime in on the removal of middle benches.

Sure, maybe years down the road the boat will loosen up or even crack (I highly highly doubt it would ever fold in half like a taco - that's just ridiculous) ... or maybe it will be just fine.

But the most important point to make is this ... these are old beat-up aluminum boats that are a whole lot more comfortable to fish out of with an open floor. Most of us paid only a couple hundred bucks for our boats and are perfectly happy taking the tiny risk that decades from now our $400 boat might spring a leak or get a crack in the hull.

Seriously folks, out of the hundreds of people on this board I imagine there is combined experience with thousands and thousands of tin boats. Has anyone even HEARD of a boat breaking due to a seat being removed? On the flip side, we've seen dozens and dozens of guys remove their seats and never have an issue.

Personally, I had a 14' Mirrorcraft that had the middle AND REAR benches removed in the early 80s. It got used by a father and son almost weekly since then and when I bought it, it didn't have a single leak or crack. It was just fine. I ran it with a 9.9 in rough water on multiple occasions and had no issues.
 
jigngrub said:
1. Straps are less than desireable and pretty much useless if they are actual "straps" and not rigid suports. A strap only gives support one way, it'll keep the wall from flexing out but gives no support for being pushed in like the rigid bench did.
If you look closely, I think you'll find I used the word "straps" in quotation marks. This was to convey an idea of single rigid member, not to suggest actual straps. You focused on the word, rather than the actual idea. You also failed to read the rest of the commentary. I suggest perhaps you're too focused on winning an argument or pushing your concepts, rather than actually helping someone with their boat. This is called having an agenda and is not uncommon on forums.

Also a strap is only anchored with one, maybe 2 fasteners usually in 1" decking which isn't going to hold diddly...
It'll do fine and has done so, on quite a large number of aluminum boats. It might not in a fiberglass boat though, where the flooring has horizontal strength, but little holding power for screws, bolts, etc.

the same with rigid single member braces. Straps and single braces are usually installed at too steep of an angle to be effective, this is done to "save room" and to try to avoid the trip hazard.
Engineering data provided me by my mechanical engineering buddy doesn't support your commentary. For evidence of this, see multiple aluminum boats manufactured with only aluminum ribs for side to side structure. These are often riveted to the hull and are much steeper than any rigid single member brace, their their only tie to the other side being the bend area of rib where it is shaped to fit the curvature of the hull. The have worked fine for many years, without fail in many manufacturer's boats. The structure they provide can be easily duplicated by installing a deck fastened to available ribs, then adding "straps" aka single member braces. What one has done in this case is to duplicate the structure of the aluminum ribs, but increased it's overall rigidity by building a assembly tied to the boat's original ribs.

2. Boxes and storage compartments are a good option and can be very effective for reinforcing a boats sidewalls.
Like on this 1988 Starcraft:
The pictures you show support my own point more than yours. Those boxes and storage compartments are very obviously fastened to the deck (flooring) with "one or two" screws/bolts, which, according to you, "isn't going to hold diddly." Apparently they do, as that boat is quite a number of years old and those boxes, held to the flooring just as I suggested, are still working fine. And regardless if you use boxes, storage compartments or side panels, all you are doing is adding additional stiffness to the over all structure.

3. Rigid solid braces ae another good option, like this:
DSC02176.jpg

Looks like a stringer on a fiberglass boat. Would work, but takes up room and blocks anything behind it. Aluminum rigid structural members, aka "straps" will do the same thing, have the same or greater strength and won't rot. Next thing you know, you'll be saying one ought to fiberglass the wood. It appears you might next state suggesting we ought to ditch aluminum boats entirely and build wood/fiberglass ones instead.

Your methods will work, but they are NOT the only methods that do and disaster will NOT strike if other methods are followed.

As an aside, I agree with MrSimon. Seriously, you ruined this gentleman's thread pushing an agenda/opinion related to structure and epoxied plywood.
 
I'm no engineer but if I were concerned about any boat folding up like a taco I would add a couple full lenth pieces of box tub from front to back... Or pieces of tubing between the existing ribs. again from front to back.. Personally the only way I would even worry about adding side structures is if after removing the seat there were no ribs under it (i.e. its removal left a large opening on the floor void of any cross supports). Of course length of the boat and motor horse power play a role as well. I long piece of any metal is easier to bend than a short piece.
 
DaveInGA said:
Your methods will work, but they are NOT the only methods that do and disaster will NOT strike if other methods are followed.

As an aside, I agree with MrSimon. Seriously, you ruined this gentleman's thread pushing an agenda/opinion related to structure and epoxied plywood.

Disaster will not strike are the famous last words of the overly optimistic.

If you were worried about ruining this mans thread you'd have never posted any replies on what you consider "off topic subjects", especially with huge quotes and tacky red font... you're just as much to blame as anybody.

Maybe you should post some pics of your transformations to try to make amends?

You should remember that when anyone posts to this thread it sends it back to the top of the page for everyone to see again, whether the post is "on topic" or not. My initial reply has kept this thread alive and kept it from slipping quietly into the archives on page #99.

This thread has been around for awhile and it doesn't look like anyone is very interested in posting their transformations, but they're more interested in talking about other stuff.


Soooooo, getting back to the subject... this is my transformation.

I transformed this:
DSC02195.jpg


... into this:
DSC02252.jpg
 

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