Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

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canis521
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by canis521 » 19 Sep 2008, 20:06

Okay so I am back from Cabelas. According to them I can get away with one battery- if I understand I will need another (or two) if I put in a trolling motor.

I picked up a fused 6 switch panel- http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... 0&rid=true
Per suggestions the Johnny Ray Battery Terminal connectors- http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

And this to replace an existing badly corroded one- http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

So if I understand this correctly, going with one deep cycle battery:

I will connect the positive and negative from the outboard to the corresponding terminals. For the instruments and controller I will run the postive lead with a fuse for each (should have picked up the fuse box while I was there) to the instrument and then the negative back to the negative terminal on the battery.

Then I will attatch the Johnny Ray battery terminal connector to the corresponding terminals and run one wire from the positive terminal to the 6 switch panel. From each switch I will run a wire to each accessory I want to power (and according to the guy at Cabelas I can run all 3 of the 12v plugs through one switch), then take each negative from each accessory and run them back to the negative Johnny Ray battery terminal connector. And that should do it....right?

If I do it this way (pending I actually have this correct) what gauge wire should I use for each step?

The other option is to use 2 batteries. My understanding here is to use the exisiting deep cycle to power all accessories, and buy a regular 12 v battery for a starting battery. Then run outboard, all instruments and the controller from this battery. I was told the alternator in my Mercury 35hp would charge this battery. Is this really correct?

Is it my understanding that grounding is not needed? That doesn't make any sense to me. Please give me feedback.

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Zum
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by Zum » 20 Sep 2008, 09:46

I've read your post a few times...still not sure if I understand what you want but here we go.
First for your instruments and controller...are you using the switch panel for this?If not,I can see putting in a fuse and doing it that way but whats the switch panel for,just the 12V plugs?
On the 12V plugs,using one switch...might be possible depending on what your running on the 12V plugs(s) at the time.Not sure what your using them for so it's kinda hard to say what size amps and wire size.If you put to big of a fuse(breaker)it might not blow(trip)in time to save whatever your using.
Your outboards alternator doesn't put out enough to charge your battery,especially if your running alot of stuff off the battery.If you had one starting battery it might keep it charged but it is a good thing to charge it manually after every use.Does your outboard have a pull cord?
Sorry,if I misunderstood your post...
On 12V dc only pos neg is needed....Some boats use ground(neg)strips but it's not needed here.It's just something like your Johnny Ray thing with all your connections going to one point.
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canis521
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by canis521 » 20 Sep 2008, 11:29

Thanks for your help... I think I can clear things up a bit.

The switches will be run off the deep cycle battery and used for:

*navigation lights
*courtesy lights
*bilge pump
*12vdc plugs- I will use these for my handheld GPS, spotlight, charge dog collars,charge cell phone?,etc.
*this will leave 2 open switches for future use

I think I will buy a second battery for a starting battery- and this should NOT be a deep cycle, correct? Off of the starting battery I plan to run the instruments and the controller- with a fuse box between the postive terminal and the components.

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Waterwings
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by Waterwings » 20 Sep 2008, 11:35

When I owned my Tracker, w/50hp Merc on the back, both of my batteries, including the starting batt, were deep cycle. Both batteries I have on my current rig (no gas motor on this one) are also deep cycle.
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canis521
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by canis521 » 20 Sep 2008, 11:44

I was told (or read) somewhere that a deepcycle does not have the cranking amps that a regular battery has, but it obviously will work.

I forgot to answer Zum- there is not a pull cord on my outboard.

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Waterwings
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by Waterwings » 20 Sep 2008, 11:52

Here's a good explanation by Capt. Ahab back in April. There's also a link in his post about batteries:
I woudl not waste the time with the lawn tractor battery - you can run this with any car type battery (Starting Battery or "SLI" Starting, Lighting, Ignition) just fine, but a deep cycle marine battery will always work better, especially if you might run a trolling motor or pump in the future. Get a deep cycle


Found this that answers lots of battery questions:

http://marine-electronics.net/techartic ... aq.htm#7.7

Remember, deep cycle batteries will not have as many cranking amps Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA" True deep cycle batteries generally are not rated this way.


NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION

Mercury recommends that you use 465 Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) or 350 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) to start their 2 -stroke engines less then 75 hp. For a 15 hp engine you can go less then that

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Zum
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by Zum » 20 Sep 2008, 11:57

*courtesy lights...no problem
*bilge pump...no problem,if you just want to turn it on manually
...for an auto bilge(float)I think you need a different switch(on/auto)
*12vdc plugs...might work but if you plan on running the GPS,spot light
and charging dog collar at the same time,you will probably
need a high amp breaker.If something goes wrong and the
breaker doesn't trip untill the higher amperage,you run the
risk of ruining your GPS because it is of a lower amperage if
used by itself(hope that makes sence)
*navagation lights...they will work but if you want only the anchor light
to come on(stern)you will have to take out your bow light or
use a different type switch(DPDT)or you could wire the stern
light to another switch,or maybe where your at you don't need
an anchor light.
Starting batteries are better for starting..short bursts of power consumption
deep cycle hold the amps longer
I'm not a electrician,don't hold what I say as against me:)I pretty sure it's correct...plus I gotta go take the boy to hockey practice
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canis521
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by canis521 » 26 Sep 2008, 20:42

A few questions I hope to get some help on.

First, how do I disconnect the steering cable so I can completely remove the console? I have it disconnected from the motor but when I took apart the part under the steering wheel I had no idea what I was doing. Before getting a bit frustrated I thought I should ask.

When I pull the plate there is a pulley that the cable wraps around, do I need to pull that cable and if so how?
Wiring Nest.JPG
Sorry not a great picture, the plate is on the right side under all the wiring.

The cable housing is cracked pretty bad so I would like to replace that- am I better off getting a whole new (or used) steering cable kit?

On a related thought. Is it possible to convert an outboard to a tiller system? Just a thought, it would free up a fair amount of space not having the console (as was mentioned earlier).

I am ready to start painting (got the paint from lockstockbarrell.com today), just need to get to the bottom to get it prepped and painted.

SlimeTime
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by SlimeTime » 27 Sep 2008, 00:26

On the lower portion of this link, you'll find a chart that will provide you with wire size per amp draw:

http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm

Also "Marine" batteries aren't really deep cycle or "regular" starting batteries, they're a cross between the two, so you get the best of both worlds so to speak. I'd use a marine battery for your starting battery, but wouldn't run out & buy a new one of you have something that will work in the meanwhile.

If it were me, I'd run 1-larger feed to a fuse block at the console, and feed out of the fuseblock to your controls (switch panel). This will help eliminate a bunch of smaller wiring, which will be helpful if you ever have problems. Be sure you mark all your wiring, and color coding it would be even better (meaning don't run all your circuits in all 1 color, and certainly not both + & - in similar colors). Running all your -'s in 1 color is fine, it easily identifies them no matter where they are in the boat. Record (on paper) what colors feed what circuit, and make a copy, keep 1 on the boat & the other with your records.

ST

scottbustech
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by scottbustech » 30 Sep 2008, 13:15

hey k9 nice too see you found this place alright. Ill give ya a tip on the conversion of a console drive too tiller drive PRICE IT OUT that stuff is spendy or so ive been told by the man i traded my console moter too for a tiller version. but you are right it does free up a ton of space since you already said you need too replace the steer cable if it becomes cost prohibitive too turn your console too a tiller you may look at moving that console all the way rear ward so your rear deck shelf area becomes a seat hope thats clear.
Another thing too consider is how your dog will get in and out im puting my blind on this weekend and found im gonna need too build a shelf for my dog so she dont bottom out climbing in off the ladder and can still clear the blind frame.
as far as your wiring goes id scrap all that you have left and run some heavy gauge wire too the front and back and run a hot and negative stud front and rear in a water proof outdoor plug in panel and wire the componants off of those studs with circuit breakers inline. also what ever you do do not ground too your hull run ground wires too each componant
also why are you worried about charging a shock collar during a trip mine ussually last 3 or 4 days without even starting too trip the low battery light
main thing with a duck boat is keep it simple if you cant get repair parts at napa, home depot or walmart id keep it off your boat those big trips too no-wheresville population you, your pup, and a million ducks suck when you have too contimplate risking it all with no bilge pump or nav lights or sumthin couse the cabelas super widget broke and they are far away or not open till 9
hit me with an email if ya have any questions
Scott Gentry (duckboats.net )

canis521
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by canis521 » 30 Sep 2008, 21:22

Thanks for the advice Scott- and the heads up on this forum. I did scrap all the old wire and found tinned wire at Fleet Farm for much cheaper than anywhere else, they also have the connectors with the heat shrink.

Yeah I know my dog collars charge lasts quite some time, just hypothetical- sometimes things seem to happen at the worse time.

I am just about ready to paint, just a bit more prepping and should be painting tomorrow. I have not decided 100% yet on the console, once I get the decking attached I want to see how it feels for room.

I would like to get (or more likely build) a blind, but it will probably be a winter project. Definitely will keep the dog's reentry in mind.

canis521
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by canis521 » 05 Oct 2008, 15:19

Here is my progress as of today. Everything has been stripped out/off/down. The stickers are off, wiring is gone, and the aluminum is etched and ready to paint. A friend is going to spray it for me while I am out of town, it should be ready when I get back and I can start reassembling everything.

Hopefully it goes well and I can use it for the late duck season.
Ready for paint.JPG
Deck2 before paint.JPG
Deck before paint.JPG
Bow before paint.JPG
I left the carpet on for now, figure it will be an off season project to remove it. I am a bit concerned about weight distribution- I plan on using the right live well box as a battery area (one battery). The left livewell is useable as is (the right did not have aerator hooked up). The console (and hence my 250#) is on the right. I guess I will see how it goes and change if need be.

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Waterwings
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by Waterwings » 05 Oct 2008, 15:28

Nice work, and looking fwd to the finished product! 8)
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SlimeTime
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Re: Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

Post by SlimeTime » 05 Oct 2008, 17:03

Looking good! Kind of reminds me of the layout of an old 'glass Hustler boat I had.

ST

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