Motor selection

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Hookedonhunting
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Joined: 12 Jan 2020, 19:42

Motor selection

Post by Hookedonhunting »

Hey folks. First ever post on this forum. Looking forward to learning as much as possible in here. After searching around on here and reading some posts I want to ask for y'alls opinion.

I've got a line on purchasing a G3 1548 with a metal floor and gunnwal kit. Front deck, three trolling motors, batteries and chargers on each. I plan on removing the two rear trolling motors and leaving the front one. I want to add an outboard. I'm thinking a 25 or 30 horse tiller. I plan on adding a kick up plate. Possibly even a jackplate. I will use this boat in the lake and river. I will fish and hunt out of it.
1) what motor would you folks recommend? I'm leaning 4 stroke simply for noise. Have any insights on this?
2) where or who has the best prices on motors?
3) should I consider anything for this "build" that you did and i absolutely must do?


Thanks for any help!

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1960 yellowboat
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Location: Homosassa Florida

Motor selection

Post by 1960 yellowboat »

If new 4 stroke,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Yamaha

If used 2 stroke,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,evinrude/Johnson


Avoid all others, especially Mercury

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LDUBS
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Location: Clayton California

Motor selection

Post by LDUBS »

Yamaha four-strokes seem pretty popular around here. I have a Honda four-stroke because that was part of the package deal. So far I like it a lot. No problems at all with it so far with a little over 200 hours on it. I also previously had a 25 HP Merc four-stroke that I found dependable. It was new when I got it so I know it was maintained. I don't know about older 2-strokes.

I do as much of the servicing as possible myself, but still like to know there are local shops that can wok on my brand.
Have Rod - Will Fish

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bcbouy
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Motor selection

Post by bcbouy »

new or used? what are there for dealers in your area and do you plan to fish local, mostly? for 25/30 i'd go tohatsu or etec.tohatsu for value and etec for ease of maintenance,plus power.nothing will out pull an etec.i've got over 300 hours on my 40 and i haven't done a thing to it,it's more efficient,quiet,it winterises itself,and i got a 10 year factory warranty.lets see if yamaha will match that.let the fights begin.
if all else fails....stop using all else

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LDUBS
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Motor selection

Post by LDUBS »

The Merc 25 I mentioned above was made by Tohatsu. Terrific motor. I don't know much about the ETECs but they sure sound good.
Have Rod - Will Fish

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wmk0002
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Motor selection

Post by wmk0002 »

Lots of variables...First off what is the boat rated for and what is your budget if you are willing to buy a new outboard?
2016 Alumacraft 1648 NCS - 1992 Johnson 9.9 HP Tiller
http://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic ... 21&t=40764

Hookedonhunting
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Joined: 12 Jan 2020, 19:42

Motor selection

Post by Hookedonhunting »

Thanks for the replies.
Budget is the best bang for the buck. But I'd like to keep it under 5k or 6k. I want electric start and built in tilt. Guess I could go used. But ideally new. I have lots of dealers around me. I'm sandwiched between lake Lanier and lake Allatoona here in Canton GA. So there's plenty of dealerships around. I've found that dealerships only want to sell you A) what they carry and B) what they have in stock of that motor they carry. Regardless of what you want...... Is there not a direct on line source for motors y'all know about? Boat is rated for a 25.

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Pappy
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Motor selection

Post by Pappy »

Your last sentence in your last post opens a veritable can of worms.......
What you need to do is establish a relationship with the dealer of your choice.
In the horsepower range you are looking at there are very few choices in power as quite a few of the engines are built by a single manufacturer and re-branded.
Now for the can of worms...... When you buy an engine online and then have an issue with it you will have to take it to a local dealer. You know, the one you did not buy it from? Guess where you will be placed on the work flow list? That is correct, behind all of his in-house customers. Last on the list.
Just something for you to think about. Always nice to purchase local and keep your money local.

Hookedonhunting
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Joined: 12 Jan 2020, 19:42

Motor selection

Post by Hookedonhunting »

Pappy, you raise a good and smart point. I need to order this set up from a brick and mortar near me. I hadn't thought that point through. Thank you for setting me straight on that.

Does anyone know if the recent year model etecs have solved their impeller issues? I've seen some reports that the material isn't holding up guys are having replace the impeller out of pocket since it's not covered under their warranty.

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Pappy
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Post by Pappy »

We saw failures for a while on the impellers but that issue seems to have gone away. Talk to your local dealer as well and verify or see what they say about it. Was a known issue and usually it doesn't take long to identify and rectify the issue but longer to rid the existing inventory and get existing customers taken care of.

turbotodd
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Motor selection

Post by turbotodd »

Forget ETEC. Too heavy, too expensive. They run nice, and they are quiet-and that is their only attributes. They're heavier than the 4 stroke motors.

Yamaha 25. I have one. Read the review I did on it a while back. Love the motor, and it's lack of weight. It's 10lb heavier than the 2 stroke 25 twin carb and about 15 lb lighter than my old 3 cylinder 25. Sips fuel. quiet. GF and I hold conversations all the time while running the river here but at full throttle I can't hear her very well because her voice doesn't carry very well. My dad, though, we can hear each other just fine. 1548 war eagle, rated for 40hp. If it weren't a short transom, I'd have just put a 40 on it and been done. Yamaha don't make a 15" 40hp other than a jet and I am not having a jet on this boat. There is only one complaint I have out of the current 25hp, when new, it shakes a little at idle. It subsides mostly after about 40 hours use, that or I got used to it. I haven't noticed it much lately, got about 45 hours on it now.

When you say you want built-in tilt, do you want power tilt? That limits your options. Is your hull 16" or 20" (short or tall) transom? The reason I ask....Yamaha does not make a short shaft power tilt 25hp. You have to get a 25hp remote steer long shaft with power tilt, then buy/install the tiller kit (which is big, really big and IMO bulky), which adds considerable cost to the motor. I want to say it ends up about $4500 by time it's all said & done. I ASSume your 1548 is tiller steer right?

Suzuki makes a decent motor too but I wasn't that impressed with them. Lot of people like them but for some reason they are not popular here. Only one or two dealers in the entire state, that is one problem. Other is that Suzuki doesn't advertise much, they have had internal issues at one point and about bankrupted them. Don't know if they ever recovered. To me, that doesn't show stability--and by golly if I'm spending a ton of money, I need to know that the dealer and the company are going to be around for the duration of the warranty.

So that leaves Mercury, Nissan, Tohatsu. They are all the same exact motor but with different decals and paint color. Stay away from them. Heavy as an ETEC 25 and slower. While they are smooth and quiet, the lack of torque was FAR from impressive in my opinion. Also mercury does some really weird stuff with their products and those who know mercury products well all say that everyone else is different....take that however you want. I have a 40hp EFI merc in the shop that I can't figure out, merc can't figure it out, their tech support is nonexistent, so I'm back to throwing parts at it, all the while every single bolt that screws into the powerhead has broken off (freshwater only mind you and occasional use only). I've never once had a Yamaha bolt break but then again I've not had to work on many of them other than carburetors on the old ones.

If you put a jack plate on it, that'll let you run shallower and potentially faster. On mine, with a manual jack plate, I have seen consistent 32 mph but it needs more prop as it's on the limiter. Might run faster/higher with different prop.

Yes definitely use a local dealer for the reason that pappy mentioned! I can't tell you how many times people have brought motors to me with questionable "warranty" repairs, bought online but never had the PDI done and warranty registered. If it's not registered, it doesn't have any warranty and secondly if they don't buy it at the dealer, they are subject to going to the back of the line. If one of our customers has a problem, he spent his money with us and he comes first. Nobody makes much on outboards so many dealers are multi-line, meaning they'll have other equipment, and their customers always come before mail-order customers, so in a multi-line dealer the wait time for repair or service can be lengthy. I don't know about you but I hate missing a day of fishing for stupid stuff like that....particularly since I only get 1 day off every few weeks.

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bcbouy
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Motor selection

Post by bcbouy »

so,an etec weighs more than a yamaha? really.187 vs.215 w/o power tilt .check your facts.
if all else fails....stop using all else

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wmk0002
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Motor selection

Post by wmk0002 »

bcbouy wrote:
15 Jan 2020, 10:42
so,an etec weighs more than a yamaha? really.187 vs.215 w/o power tilt .check your facts.
Are you talking 25hp models? I think the new EFI Yamaha 25hp weighs under 140lbs.
2016 Alumacraft 1648 NCS - 1992 Johnson 9.9 HP Tiller
http://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic ... 21&t=40764

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wmk0002
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Motor selection

Post by wmk0002 »

Since you say 25hp is the hull rating, I would scratch the kick-up plate from your wish list. Most 25hp models will have the manual tilt pin, so if you mount the motor on a jack plate or aftermarket trim unit you can leave the motor's manual tilt system unlocked which allows it to swing up if you hit an obstacle at slow speeds just like a kick-up plate.
2016 Alumacraft 1648 NCS - 1992 Johnson 9.9 HP Tiller
http://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic ... 21&t=40764

turbotodd
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Motor selection

Post by turbotodd »

bcbouy wrote:
15 Jan 2020, 10:42
so,an etec weighs more than a yamaha? really.187 vs.215 w/o power tilt .check your facts.
Are you sure you didn't look at the 40hp? Yamaha's 40 is a heavy pig at 215 lbs, but I did not speak of 40hp, I was talking about 25hp and there is a HUGE difference. 40's are real popular here too, mostly 40/30 jets. VERY common along the rivers in this area, outnumber the Mercury suzuki tohatsu evinrude and johnsons combined.

Yamaha F25SWHC is 130.5 lb (my motor with fuel in the VST. The short shaft manual start version is 126 lbs even, dry (out of the crate). I don't see many of those here. $3789 at work, just mounted one a little bit ago and pulled the tag off. Need picture?
ETEC comparable (tiller electric manual tilt short) 166 lb even. $5050 online.

I like the etec but I am not impressed with their lack of longevity. If they could make it more reliable and less costly, and most importantly lighter, I'd consider owning one.

Those are on my shipping scale at work. ETEC 25hp is a lot heavier. It's heavier than the suzuki, heavier than the Tohatsu/Mercury/Nissan and those things are pretty big/heavy. Now why on earth....does an ETEC have 577cc, the yamaha (which is 4 stroke) is only 432cc, and the mercury/tohatsu is 500cc, and they all make 25hp?

Common issues that have been seen in this area with the etec 25hp have been high pressure fuel pumps, impellers, and the most inconvenient is when sand/dirt/stuff gets stuck inside the cooling tubes that reside in the EMM, which makes the EMM get warm, which throws it into limp mode. The worst part about this is that the operator never notices a lack of telltale (pee hole) water. The EMM is about $600, warranty usually picks up the tab on failed ones but not so much on the liquid cooled/plugged cooling hose ordeal. Pretty common. EMM is the engine management module, aka computer. On the impellers, I am understanding that BRP has improved them for the newest generation. I haven't heard on the EMM cooling. No solution that I know of (or have heard of). HP pumps are said to last longer if you mix a little bit of oil into the fuel. Defeats the purpose of having oil injection doesn't it? Also...on the oil injection...you MUST run ETEC's specific oil in the ETEC motor, unless you have it reprogrammed then you can run whatever you want. That almost sounds like the Volkswagen diesel ordeal if you ask me.

People talk about the "simplicity" of a 2 stroke and supposedly that is the ETEC's main selling point, but what they don't tell you is how much more complex the engine's fuel and operating systems are in comparison to a proven, tried and true EFI 4 stroke. Yamaha's system is really simple. I was a skeptic too, but I bought one anyway and everyone I've talked to has had exactly zero problem with them. That is impressive in my book. ETEC guys? A few are happy. The rest have already sold them or are trying to. I have a neighbor and a family member-both in the same situation.

One other consideration is the shipping costs if one was to purchase online. Most everyone charges a flat rate to anywhere which is LTL (less than truck load), it comes on an 18 wheeler. A lot of the time they (shippers) negotiate a price with the cheapest place they can find and those cheap places aren't always any good. I deal with them daily. XPO is just ok, R&L, nothing comes in one piece, Southeastern Freight, everything comes completely torn up most of the outboard crates come with no cardboard on them (just Styrofoam and they tape it up). Southeastern is probably the worst. AAA cooper is one of the better ones but they also cost more. UPS freight is ok sometimes, other times not, other times stellar. Same with FEDEX freight. But most companies use the least expensive which is almost guaranteed to get you a torn up box. Whether the motor is hurt underneath the box is a case-by-case basis. Regardless, if it is skinned up (cowlings broken or scratched up is common, also scratches on the leg and sometimes the foot), then you get to fight with the people you bought it from, with the freight company (which can be a nightmare), they will want pictures and they know what they are looking for, so just any picture ain't gonna work in a claim. Sometimes the shipper (company you purchased from) might want you to return a part that is damaged. If you aren't a mechanic or have mechanical skill, you have to pay a shop to remove the skinned up part, pay to send it back, hope it gets there and hope it gets there in the same condition you sent it. The whole ordeal is a nightmare! And to add insult to injury all shipments that are heavier than I think 40 lbs have a $20-something dollar fee tacked onto them, and truck freight charges went up too (particularly LTL stuff). I ordered a hood for a car a couple week ago and it was over $250 just for shipping (again, LTL) but it came in perfect condition via fedex freight. I could have gotten it cheaper from Roadway, XPO or even souteastern but I chose to use fedex instead, easier to deal with, better equipment, and these guys around here take better care of their freight than the UPS freight (local) guys do. And on a freight damage claim, most of the time Yamaha doesn't actually "cover" that as a warranty deal because it's not their responsibility; they do a pretty good job of inspecting every crate that leaves their warehouse, once it's on the truck, damage responsibility falls solely on the trucking company, and they do everything that they can possibly do to get out of paying for damage. Trust me, I deal with on an almost daily basis.

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