I don't want to start a fight or get people mad. I was just reading through some threads and wondering how everyone justifies one or the other. I understand the cost of a newer outboard is really high, but where do you cut your loses with repairs and upkeep on an older one. I used to have a mid seventies 28 horse Johnson on my 14' and loved how fast it ran but after replacing part after part it was nickel and dimeing me. I was sick of rowing to show to replace sheer pins(it sucks trying not to lose the parts while hanging over the back of the boat in the middle of the river) I broke down(literally) and bought a newer used 15 johnson and love being able to mix gas and go. Like I said I'm not looking for fights, maybe just a lively discussion on the pros and cons.
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old motor verse new motor debate
- Thread starter Crankworm
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I'd venture out on a limb and say that small motors (say around 40 and below) ought to be in a different category than large ones. Also, when I say old, I mean "old," not a used motor that has a 3 or 4 years on it - I'm truly talking '60s, '70s, '80s motors.
In small motors, the old ones are generally going to be much easier to work on, without specialized tools. Due to their simplicity, they are usually pretty reliable (disregarding older Mercury's - don't know what was going through Karl Keikhaffeur's mind), and have excellent longevity - no electronics that cost a fortune to wear out, etc. Their initial cost of ownership is usually a lot lower, which for many is the difference in being able to get on the water, or not. With the exception of the few remaining 2 stroke Yamadingers (I put this as an exception, as these aren't all that common, and don't represent the "general" line of new motors these days), the old ones are often lighter, but that is due to the 2 and 4 stroke difference.
However, they are going to be a little less fuel efficient. They aren't going to have what I like to call creature comforts. As in, many will lack power tilt and trim. They will often seep and leak a little, which is no problem, but sometimes it is annoying to get unburned oil on your hand as you lift the motor to drop it in the motor toter. Won't be as quiet.
On larger motors, the old has more cons than pros.
The larger ones just don't seem to last as long. Speaking in terms of Johnnyrudes, the small 2 cyl. motors will run forever and a day. The larger ones tend to wear themselves out quicker. They have simplicity, but I'm not so sure of the reliability gains.
The fuel economy is definitely worse, and they still lack the creature comforts.
Lets just say I would buy a '68 model 5 horse in pretty short order, if I needed one. I would probably not put the '68 55 horse on any of my boats, even if I got it for free.
When I finally (I'm not finding near as much work as I anticipated), get the money to build the 21 ft. alloy center console, lets just say I'll be looking for a lightly used (solely because I'd like to let someone else take the initial depreciation, I don't like to buy much of anything "brand new") Honda BF225, as opposed to an '80s Evinrude 225, even though the cost difference would be significant.
In small motors, the old ones are generally going to be much easier to work on, without specialized tools. Due to their simplicity, they are usually pretty reliable (disregarding older Mercury's - don't know what was going through Karl Keikhaffeur's mind), and have excellent longevity - no electronics that cost a fortune to wear out, etc. Their initial cost of ownership is usually a lot lower, which for many is the difference in being able to get on the water, or not. With the exception of the few remaining 2 stroke Yamadingers (I put this as an exception, as these aren't all that common, and don't represent the "general" line of new motors these days), the old ones are often lighter, but that is due to the 2 and 4 stroke difference.
However, they are going to be a little less fuel efficient. They aren't going to have what I like to call creature comforts. As in, many will lack power tilt and trim. They will often seep and leak a little, which is no problem, but sometimes it is annoying to get unburned oil on your hand as you lift the motor to drop it in the motor toter. Won't be as quiet.
On larger motors, the old has more cons than pros.
The larger ones just don't seem to last as long. Speaking in terms of Johnnyrudes, the small 2 cyl. motors will run forever and a day. The larger ones tend to wear themselves out quicker. They have simplicity, but I'm not so sure of the reliability gains.
The fuel economy is definitely worse, and they still lack the creature comforts.
Lets just say I would buy a '68 model 5 horse in pretty short order, if I needed one. I would probably not put the '68 55 horse on any of my boats, even if I got it for free.
When I finally (I'm not finding near as much work as I anticipated), get the money to build the 21 ft. alloy center console, lets just say I'll be looking for a lightly used (solely because I'd like to let someone else take the initial depreciation, I don't like to buy much of anything "brand new") Honda BF225, as opposed to an '80s Evinrude 225, even though the cost difference would be significant.
Crankworm said:
I've never understood freakin' shear pins. My dad can borrow the boat, and break a shear pin in 80 feet of water. I hit a rock so hard with the prop that it bends the prop shaft, and the shear pin is fine. In fact, (knock on wood), I've yet to ever bust a shear pin myself. Not really sure what it is about them.
I don't get the shear pin thing either. They must have determined they were worthless since prop shafts are splined now.
Aluminum props tend to break or bend when hitting an object before there is damage done to the LU gears. If I was busting shear pins constantly then I would replace it with something that wouldn't bust.
My older outboards are just as dependable as any new motor out there. If you understand the basic concepts of how small engines run then the little things that pop up from time to time are not that big of a deal. If your taking your outboard to a mechanic for every little thing then I could see how that would be frustrating and costly.
I doubt I have spent more then $100 in parts for my older outboards to keep them going in the last 20 years. I ran a 1980 Johnson 25hp for 15 years and eventually sank $50 into it because I was going to sell it. I got rid of the few bugs it had and sold it for over 3X then what I had originally paid for it. Try doing that with a new outboard.
Aluminum props tend to break or bend when hitting an object before there is damage done to the LU gears. If I was busting shear pins constantly then I would replace it with something that wouldn't bust.
My older outboards are just as dependable as any new motor out there. If you understand the basic concepts of how small engines run then the little things that pop up from time to time are not that big of a deal. If your taking your outboard to a mechanic for every little thing then I could see how that would be frustrating and costly.
I doubt I have spent more then $100 in parts for my older outboards to keep them going in the last 20 years. I ran a 1980 Johnson 25hp for 15 years and eventually sank $50 into it because I was going to sell it. I got rid of the few bugs it had and sold it for over 3X then what I had originally paid for it. Try doing that with a new outboard.
Loggerhead Mike
Well-known member
x2. im prettymuch in the same boat as bassboy. easyer to work no, no special tools, basic design, no cheap electrical parts
New: DONT HAVE TO WORK ON IT :lol:
Troutman3000
Well-known member
Loggerhead Mike said:
Well you may have to work on a new one, when it aint new no more, and thats the problem. Sooner or later the new ones will become old and then you are in for a world of hurt.
Crank, nothing will start a debate here faster than a discussion about motors. Old vs: new and 2-stroke vs: 4-stroke. You want lively, that's the way to get it.
My current and past motor were both new when I got them so I can't weigh in on this. I have a '52 Johnson 5hp that runs like a dream and throttles down so slowly that the foam on the water passes the boat when I'm trolling. I'm interested in your question though because my new project is a '64 runabout that I'm fixing up and want a vintage motor to put on it. I've been looking already and can find restored motors in the 30-40hp range that go from about $1800-$2400. They look showroom and that's what I want for this boat. I'm not sure I have the motor smarts to rebuild/restore one myself so I don't know what I'll do. I'll be watching this thread with interest though to help me make the decision.
My current and past motor were both new when I got them so I can't weigh in on this. I have a '52 Johnson 5hp that runs like a dream and throttles down so slowly that the foam on the water passes the boat when I'm trolling. I'm interested in your question though because my new project is a '64 runabout that I'm fixing up and want a vintage motor to put on it. I've been looking already and can find restored motors in the 30-40hp range that go from about $1800-$2400. They look showroom and that's what I want for this boat. I'm not sure I have the motor smarts to rebuild/restore one myself so I don't know what I'll do. I'll be watching this thread with interest though to help me make the decision.
bobberboy said:
I completely dig vintage motors on vintage boats and I really think the older motors just plain look cooler in general. I was personally sick of ordering parts and spending time fixing stuff instead of fishing. The boating season in MI isn't the same as it is down south so if I have to spend a weekend finding the problem, spend my free time during the week finding parts, the next weekend installing parts if they arrive, I could literally spend half a boating season just fixing one silly problem instead of fishing. When I say new motor I really mean newer. My 15 horse is a 93 I think, but it proboly has less hours on it then most 2005 motors in Florida.
Quackrstackr
Well-known member
Whoopbass said:
I have a buddy that just had his entire lower unit replaced on a 2008 Yamaha because of 2 extremely light prop strikes (nick in one blade, not even bent). His l/u let loose a couple of weeks ago and actually locked the power head up. He runs an aluminum prop.
Either his LU was a lemon or Yamaha's have extremely weak lower units. No LU should give out on nicking something.
I have destroyed my share of aluminum props fishing rivers over the years and never had a LU problem.
I have destroyed my share of aluminum props fishing rivers over the years and never had a LU problem.
Quackrstackr
Well-known member
Agree 100%.
Just throwing that out there to show that it can and does happen, though.
Just throwing that out there to show that it can and does happen, though.
redbug
Well-known member
for me it comes down to the fact that with a new motor I know how the motor was broken in
maintained and how hard it has been run.
I have a 2005 yamaha 225hpdi that only has 68 hours on it and only 15 hours have been run at WOT with a used motor you never know
and are stuck trusting the previous owner took good care of it.
with a smaller motor under 20hp i would be okay with a used motor but would expect to have problems with it
maintained and how hard it has been run.
I have a 2005 yamaha 225hpdi that only has 68 hours on it and only 15 hours have been run at WOT with a used motor you never know
and are stuck trusting the previous owner took good care of it.
with a smaller motor under 20hp i would be okay with a used motor but would expect to have problems with it
Troutman3000
Well-known member
Defintely starting to lean new motor after all the trouble I have had with mine.
BaitCaster
Well-known member
Yeah. well I might be a little jaded after just dropping $944 in repairs on my '58 Evinrude. That being said, I have a motor in like new condition for about $1100 all in. That's still way cheaper than a brand new motor. Also, I've got 18hp in a much lighter motor than a modern 15hp. My motor is very simply built. It was also built to last. The big thing is you can't beat the look and style of the older motors. I vote for the old, i.e. "vintage", motors.
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perchin
Well-known member
I guess for me it comes down to how old, and how much money was going to be invested. Around here you can get a lot of motors for $500 to $850 range that are mid 90's, and from 7.5hp to 25hp. I got a steal on a 66' merc. 9.8hp for only $50.00, spent another $125.00 for a carb kit, impeller, and one coil pack. So for $175.00 I have a good running motor, that parts are readily available for. If it were any older and I had to have a shop do the work on it, I don't think it would be worth my time. JMHO
BTW-- Baitcaster, I love the looks of those ol' rudes. Wish I had one in that kind of condition too. =P~
BTW-- Baitcaster, I love the looks of those ol' rudes. Wish I had one in that kind of condition too. =P~
Zum
Well-known member
I like used...
I fish alot of shallow hard bottom,rocky lakes.
I hardly ever make it through a season without hitting afew times.
I'd probably just pussy foot around if I had a new motor,scared to whack it.
The last 3 motors I had(have 2 still)are used.Only one,a 40hp Suzuki is gone.Bought it for $500,motor went(sunk b4 I bought it),sold the parts,lower unit for $250...so got 3 years for 250.
I'm on my thrid year with this $300,30hp Mariner(Yamaha),couple props gone,missing piece of skeg,still goes strong doesn't owe me nothing.
I bought a second hand 9.9 years ago(15-20?)still running,have it on another boat but those year evinrudes are probably the best outboards out there,I think everyone and there dog has aleast one here.
Just do what someone mentioned before:
Ask questions...what ratio oil did they run?usage,trouble it's had in the past
Look the motor over...new paint,ask why...paint blistering,may have overheated but maybe not(saltwater)
Compression check
Lower unit oil
Pumping water
Ask to hear it running or even better for a ride(if they start without water maybe stay away)
Don't get me wrong a new motor would be nice but I've had pretty good luck buying used.
I fish alot of shallow hard bottom,rocky lakes.
I hardly ever make it through a season without hitting afew times.
I'd probably just pussy foot around if I had a new motor,scared to whack it.
The last 3 motors I had(have 2 still)are used.Only one,a 40hp Suzuki is gone.Bought it for $500,motor went(sunk b4 I bought it),sold the parts,lower unit for $250...so got 3 years for 250.
I'm on my thrid year with this $300,30hp Mariner(Yamaha),couple props gone,missing piece of skeg,still goes strong doesn't owe me nothing.
I bought a second hand 9.9 years ago(15-20?)still running,have it on another boat but those year evinrudes are probably the best outboards out there,I think everyone and there dog has aleast one here.
Just do what someone mentioned before:
Ask questions...what ratio oil did they run?usage,trouble it's had in the past
Look the motor over...new paint,ask why...paint blistering,may have overheated but maybe not(saltwater)
Compression check
Lower unit oil
Pumping water
Ask to hear it running or even better for a ride(if they start without water maybe stay away)
Don't get me wrong a new motor would be nice but I've had pretty good luck buying used.
Troutman3000
Well-known member
boater1234 said:
Looking for a 25hp. The problem is I gave less than 2 grand for my boat so another 3 for a motor and I fell like I could buy a nicer new rig. Thats where I am stuck.
I am currently looking at an 80's model 40hp (Mariner-yahmaha) the guy wants 700 but I may offer hiim 500 and see if he bites. If so I heard that those motors are bullet proof as well.
BaitCaster
Well-known member
I defineitley agree that you get what you pay for. I think you should expect to have to put some money into any iused motor you buy. However, when you weigh that against buying brand new you can still come out ahead. In my case, I spent $150 for my motor. I knew I was giong to have to invest some money into it. I speng $944 on repairs (could have been cheaper if I was skilled enough to do it myself). Now I have a completely refurbished motor for around $1K. The work the mechanic did is warrantied for a year.
Troutman3000
Well-known member
BaitCaster said:
Plus you have more of a collectors item.
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