dkonrai said:
imho:
a tuned 2 stroke will start in one or two pulls, not smoke excessive, can idle down lower than a 4 stroke (4 strokes need idle speed for oil pressure), parts will always be easy to find, millions of johnson/evinrude parts out there, simple to work on, less maintenance, excellent power to weight ratio.
4 strokes, are heavier, but do run quite and give outstanding gas mileage.
as for parts, its easier to find old 2 stroke parts than 4 stroke parts. many newer (199's to early 2000) parts are listed as nla. yes its easier to find carb or carb parts for the older two strokes.
personally i have bought/serviced/sold about 60 motors or so in the past few years. imho a yamaha or jonnyrude 2 stroke will out perform any 4 stroke. (for now)
dino
My F25 doesn't even need but about 12" of pull on the rope to start it. Not even a half pull. Starts great, when I use the rope starter (rare). Just a tap of the button and it's running. I have had it for 3 or 4 years (4 I think). The guy I got it from was a moron and let it sit for a few years, gummed up the carb horribly. I cleaned it thoroughly (ultrasonic) and have done nothing but normal maintenance since. Impeller over the winter. Nothing different than a 2 smoke motor other than the oil change (which is....really simple and cheap, for me under $10).
It's easier to find parts for 2 smoke stuff for a couple reasons. Numbers. Theyv'e been built for about 100 years, so naturally there's gonna be a bunch of parts available. And they break more often and aftermarket knows that. More often meaning since they've been out for 100+ years, there's more of them and the ones that are still out there are becoming aged.
I've already explained that I prefer the 4 stroke, but keep in mind that I "was" a die hard 2 stroke fan until I got my little 25. It is an absolute joy to use. Had the 25 2 stroke before and loved it as well. Other than drowing in my own smoke and having to carefully mix up the oil into the fuel at 100:1. It's crude, but it flat works. Until someone forgets to dump the oil into the fuel tank. Then you get about an hour's run time out of it (at the most) before the powerhead is done. A crank-cylinder assembly for a 25 2 stroke (powerhead) runs about $1100. One for an F25 is about $1200. Not a huge difference. That said, I've never had to replace a powerhead on a 4 stroke. But I've got a slew of 2 stroke engines and blocks in the shed. Matter of fact, I'm going to take them to the scrap yard tomorrow, weather permitting.
performance, is there a huge difference? Take a Vmax 150 2 stroke and compare it to a Vmax 150 4 stroke (the new one). They run almost identical. Holeshot to top speed. The boats that I ran were identical boats, one a VF150 (4 stroke) and one the V150 (2 stroke). They both ran within a few tenths of a MPH top speed. Holeshot win went to the VF150. Midrange went to the VF150. In a tournament application, the VF150 wins hands down. With 27 gal of fuel on board, the VF150 has quite a bit more range, so if for instance, I was at a big lake and needed to run 50 miles to the "hole", I could theoretically do it easily-with fuel to spare-with the VF150, where I'd be a little nervous with the V150. That's where fuel economy comes in.
there is no getting away from 4 stroke stuff. It's here to stay. So that brings up the question. Do we embrace it? Or do we cuss it and turn our heads the other way, investing thousands into repairing an old motor? IMO, usually trying to keep old stuff going costs about as much as going new (or new used), and with going to a newer motor, we're looking at less time in the shop...meaning more time on the water.
The ETEC "marketing" is a lot of hype. The ETEC 25 will burn as clean as a carbureted current 4 stroke (speaking of 25 hp here, because that is what I know). BUT most people don't think about this. BRP rated it by using THEIR own special oil. And it is not cheap. If you are in a pinch and can't get it because the local bait shop doesn't carry it, you're out of luck. OR the other option, have BRP dealer re-flash the ECU to run any oil, but then it's just a normal 2 stroke, which also comes with the normal 2 stroke fuel usage and smoke. I've had a couple guys coming into the shop wanting to trade their ETEC's in on a new Yamaha F25, just for this reason. They fell for the ETEC hype, and while they are a cool motor, they're still just an overcomplicated JohnnyRude from 1960, and carry many of the same issues (and then some once you figure in the EFI issues). Oh and the ETEC 25 is not any lighter than most of the 4 strokes. 165 lb, IIRC.
There is no doubt that a 2 stroke V6 has a sound that will send chills up anyone's spine, and they run well. Just don't plan on passing any fuel stops, and don't forget to add oil to the tank
What always makes me remember 2 stroke fuel usage is the old Yamaha watercraft. The 1100 and 1200 specifically. I had a Wave Raider 1100 for a while (they are a bad dude!). If I ran it hard, it would EMPTY the 18 gal tank in just over an hour. If I spent the day at the lake, with today's fuel prices, it would end up being WELL over $200 just in boat gas, and that's going home early. I did remember spending $250 one Memorial day, on fuel alone. Not counting a couple gallons of oil. And to think a big V6 on a bass boat will run through roughly 1.5x more fuel than that old jet ski did. If you were tournament fishin', you better have either deep pockets of a big time sponsor. Friend of mine just replaced a $5600 powerhead on a 4 year old 2 stroke 200 Mercury (holed the block during a tournament). Must be nice to have money.
