Talk me out of a new engine... New 4 stroke vs a Rebuild.

Got a 1997 War Eagle with a 92' Johnson 25 tiller.
Been sitting around for 6-7 years now, not getting a ton of use, and the past 3 years, none at all. Got heavy in the bass club/open Tx stuff for a while, but now i want to back off that.

The older Johnson is in good shape, but has some issues. GOT to convert it to electric start. Needs a new power pac, throttle cable, and of course, water pump replaced. I'm going to add a CMC PT-35 also. I'm GUESSING I'm going to be well north of $1200,00 by the time I get the Johnson the way I want it. The compression is above 100 psi and both cyl are with-in 10% of each other.

So I've also been looking at newer engines. For roughly $4000,00 give or take, I can get a brand new 25hp 4 stroke ele start, with the trim, or add the CMC to it also.

I know the old Johnson 2 stroke is gonna be at least 30lbs lighter, run faster, etc. BUT it's still a 22 year old engine.

A newer motor will be heavier, and somewhat slower. How much slower, I don't know. Most anyplace I'll go in this thing is within 10 miles of a ramp.

So, spend the money on refurbishing the Johnson (I'm leaning this way, to be honest) or dump the old 2 stroke for a new engine?

Just like to hear ya'lls thoughts.
Thanks.

Rebuild it. That's what I would do, but in my thoughts, I'll do almost anything to save a dollar in the long run. I am running a 1997 60hp mercury on my Seaark and a 1966 9.5hp evinrude on my small boat, so older outboard don't always mean it's a bad one.

The OMC 25-35hp powerheads are very hard to kill. Feed them correctly and use them with half a brain and they will possibly outlast your fishing career.
You can do an awful lot with the difference in money you would pay for reduced performance!

Can't tell ya what you should do, but faced with that choice I would rebuild it and be happy with the 2800 bucks I didn't have to spend....

I'll go against the grain a say dump the 2 smoke. Love my new 30 hp Tohatsu.

Well the decision is only yours, we can't steer you. Almost sounds like your mind is made up to fix up the Johnson.

I've been down this road many, MANY times. Seems like fixing the old is the way to go because it's cheaper. But no matter how much I try to polish a turd, it's still always a turd. Just a better looking one. IOW, fix the little stuff now and get it going. You get halfway to your fishing hole, and something else breaks. Get that fixed, next trip out something else breaks. You get the idea. That's always been my experience.

I've been around a few Johnnys and 'Rudes, and a few more Yamaha's and a handful of Merc's. If it were my choice, and I had the money to do it, I'd get a new Yamaha in a heartbeat. And by the way that's not just because I have been around them; it's because when I did boat motors for a living, we did quite well with Merc, OMC motors, but if we had to focus solely on Yamaha, we'd starve (as techs).

When you mentioned adding electric start, are you figuring the "right" way of doing it? Stator, regulator, all the wiring, etc? Or just adding a starter and a switch? The new electric start motors have a charging system built in so that when you're running the outboard, it's charging the battery. That comes in REAL handy at times.

Weight is an issue-but if you're adding a CMC, it becomes a non-issue.

Thing that always ate at me with 99% of the 2 stroke motors was the smoke. Last Johnson I ran (which was ironically enough on a War Eagle 548) ran fine. We ran up river about a mile or so and drifted back past the ramp about 2 miles. Then when we went to start the outboard to move back upriver, I drowned in exhaust smoke. It is also a single carburetor which tends to idle a little rougher than a twin-carb Yamaha (2 stroke 25hp). And uses a tiny bit more fuel.

The new 4 strokes use no fuel to speak of, you don't have to mix fuel, just put some 87 octane in it and go. Oil change once or twice a year (for most of us), a valve adjustment once in about 5 years time (which is cheap and easy on the smaller motors) is all that differentiates it from a 2 stroke as far as maintenance. I suggest going to a 3 gallon fuel tank if you don't already have one-because most folks who have a 6 gal tank never use the 6 gallons and it goes old before it gets used. I put a 3 gal in mine and even on a LONG day of fishing, running the motor a LOT, I might use 1 1/2 gal...if I'm really beating on it. The idle is cleaner, it is more responsive than a 2 stroke. It's just an overall joy to use it. I have confidence in it-and I bought it used (2000 model Yamaha 25 4 stroke). I wouldn't own it if I wasn't confident that it'll get me there and back. Trust me, I'm REALLY picky with that kind of thing. Nothing ruins a trip quicker than having a problem on the water, and it doesn't stop there....if I have a problem once, I think about it the next time I'm out. Is it going to break again? I also think that the 4 strokes are much easier to work on. Or perhaps Yamaha in general; at least the smaller motors (under 40 hp). I was testing a guy's boat at the lake a while back and had a carburetor problem; and actually removed, disassembled, and cleaned the carb right there on the water, in the middle of the lake, with minimal tools (10mm socket and a screwdriver and a #10 fish hook straightened out to run through the jet).

Loving a tahatsu 20 I got this year. Its almost done with the break in. Power tilt and start for 3 grand

I would also suggest you consider where you will be operating it.

While not a big concern where I currently live, I do know of friends in other parts of the country where lakes are becoming "no 2 stroke" or electric only.

depending on how your surroounding area is, it might make a 4 stroke a better (but more expensive) choice.

Great White....can you name a lake that has specifically outlawed 2-stroke engines and not 4-stroke?

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=364281#p364281 said:

Pappy » Today, 09:05[/url]"]Great White....can you name a lake that has specifically outlawed 2-stroke engines and not 4-stroke

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https://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/pn-np/mb/riding/activ/activ1/activ1-bot.aspx

4 stroke OR newer direct injection 2 stroke only. Leaves us.....ahem....."frugal" boaters out in the cold.

If I were to show up with my 1983 8hp johnson I'd be sol. This is what happened to a friend of mine in Ontario. Motor too old, go home or break out the oars.

So while maybe not an outright "ban" on 2 strokes, you are buying new or you don't get to play. Might be just as well to buy a 4 stroke at that point.

It also depends on the level of "enforcement" I guess.....

I think ultimately there's no right/wrong answer, just what you prefer and can afford?

Are you happy with the reliability/performance of your current engine? None of issues you mentioned are big problems overall, if the engine runs good and you're happy with it, it'd definitely be cheaper to go this route.

If you're concerned with its reliability and can foot the bill for new power go for it. The new 4strokes shouldn't be slower, but will lack torque (acceleration speed). Check out the Etecs, I bet you'd notice improved performance.

Natedog57 said:

Check out the Etecs, I bet you'd notice improved performance.

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And more WEIGHT, more money than a current Yamaha 4 stroke, among many other downsides. I had 3 25hp ETEC's that were less than 2 years old at the shop as trade-in motors, all 3 of them bought new 4 strokes. Same weight (well within a few lbs).

The ETEC's selling point is, always will be, and always has been that it's "2 stroke" and theoretically "simpler". In theory it is. In reality, the 4 stroke is a better overall design. Folks keep thinking that the ETEC 25's are "lighter" because they are 2 stroke...but they are 169 lbs, which is within about 10 lbs of the heaviest 4 stroke 25. If the ETEC 25 was about 110 lbs and carbureted, it'd be worth looking into.

It is a fast motor, though....well 0.5-2 mph faster than a 4 stroke Yamaha in "out of the box" form.

Suggestion:

Instead of guessing $1200 worth of repair and rehab, try bringing the engine to a shop and getting a firm quote. Maybe more than one shop, since we're talking real money here?

Best wishes

I really like my two strokes. Given the money I would buy a four stroke next. Proper break in along with maintenance and a long life should ensue. Ten miles a long ways with a disagreeable condition/motor/woman ect...
If budget allows a new one with the features you want,hey a guy has to have somethin nice right?
Get the old one up to snuff as it was stock and you have a back up or a beater for an outrageous rocky adventure, or trade in or sell outright.