New Motor for '63 Lone Star?

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LoneStar63

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Hello everyone. . . My friend and I have both modified and rebuilt a couple classic boats in recent years with some inspiration from this board, but this is my first post.

The past few seasons, my outboard has started to show signs of aging. Amazingly, after the New Year, I’ll have the budget (and permission from the wife) to purchase a new (or lightly used) outboard. . . So, I’m looking for advice on what I can (or should) do.

The boat itself is a riveted aluminum 1963 Lone Star Commander. It’s a slip over 14-feet long from bow to stern, and it has a 48-inch wide wood transom that’s connected through various bolts and rivets. The depth of the transom is 16.5 inches tall at the “well” where the motor sits, but 18.5 inches tall on the flanks. . . The plate on the inside of the boat says it’s rated for up to a 25 hp motor, and a weight capacity of 1,065 pounds.

I’m currently running a 1970 Johnson SeaHorse, 25 hp, 2-stroke with an external 6 gallon tank. Because of the age of the motor, I’m having a hard time finding the motor’s specs, but my best guess is the motor weighs approximately 85 pounds.

I know that’s a lot of info, but here’s my dilemma—a lot has changed in motors and boats since the early ‘60s and ‘70s. When I use the formula provided on the motor’s main page, I get a calculation of 20 hp, and after reading the responses, the math isn’t perfect. . . But if my current motor's 85-pound spec is correct, a modern 20 hp 4-stroke weighs nearly twice what my current motor weighs. That seems dangerous to me.

Does the 25 hp rating from 1963 mean the same thing in 2016? How heavy of a motor can I (safely) carry on my transom? Can I (safely) get a 30 or even 40 hp motor that weighs close to 175 lbs?

Thoughts?
(if it makes any difference, I also travel with a deep cycle tolling motor battery in the bow which is great ballast).

Thanks for the help.
 
Can you go back to the transom and stand by the engine? Should give you a good indication on weight. You can always move weight around as well.
Am not a good one to preach on limiting horsepower to what the boat is rated at. I own 8 (I think) boats and most have close to or double the rated horsepower if not more. Never been stopped for it nor do I know anyone who has been. They have better things to do apparently. Having said that I would go with at least 30hp on it. Hows that?
 
Hey Donor, that’s a great reply. Thanks, just the type of thing I’m looking for. . .

On the water, Yeah, I can stand in the stern of the boat right next to the motor (granted there’s not too many big swells). . . In fact, before I reconfigured the cargo weight, I had the motor, transom mount trolling motor, deep cycle battery, and fuel tank all in the rear bay, and I could still stand on the stern bench seat to use a push pole or spot fish (my friend and I do a lot of bowfishing and fly fishing for carp and smallmouth bass) in shallow water. Drafting about 8 inches on average. . . . In motion, we have no problem getting the boat up on plane in flat water. But, it would be nice to have a little more muscle if the transom can support the extra 60 or 70 pounds of motor (just typing that seems like a lot to ask of a transom). . .

So yeah, according to your logic, if I continue to keep the deep cycle in the farthest part of the bow (it’s under a casting deck and I routed the wiring to the back of the boat under the gunwale), then that means I have shifted about 60 lbs. out of the back, which a heavier motor could soak up. . . Right?
 
It is usually a thrust load not a weight load that makes a bigger difference. Just make sure you have good wood in the transom and not rotten. If it is then replace it. Other than that it seems you should be good to go. Common sense prevails and all engines have throttles on them. A larger engine can be throttled back to a comfortable quiet cruise speed vs a smaller engine screaming at WOT to maintain the same required speed.
 
Excellent, thanks again for the info. . . wood on the transom is solid. . . no signs of rot or anything that would have me worried about using a motor with a few extra horses. . .

What about the dry, carrying weight when the boat is in tow? That someone anyone worries about? I don't use a transom saver because my current motor has always felt light. . . but if i have a motor that's double the weight, is that a concern while i drive the rig to and from the water?
 
. . . OK, more food for thought. . . Our local marine store is closed until the New Year, so failing that, I visited the marine department at my local Cabela’s today. . . Here’s what they told me.

First, it’s going to be hard to find a (relatively) new 25hp two-stroke that weighs the same as my old one. . . They recommended 4-stroke for a number of reasons (noise, parts, etc.).

But—there’s no avoiding the weight difference (85 lbs vs. 150 lbs.), which they didn’t think is an issue at all. However, they did recommend a Transom Plate. Wondering if I can still use such a thing if I planned to get a motor with clamps? (I don’t want to bolt the motor to my transom).

When I asked about horsepower, they said a 25 hp 4 stroke is going to weigh about the same (within a few pounds) of a 40 hp, and that the real difference is the carb. . . So, knowing that, I’m back to the safety issue. . . If all these things weigh the same, can I overlook the recommended 25hp limit and bump up to a 30 or 40 (safely) like Donor said he’s done on some of his boats?

Will fill in more of the story when I get a chance to talk with the big boat/motor retailer in our area next week. . .
 
What you have to remember at a Cabelas is that the folks you talk to are.....salesmen....period. They know how to sell and answer the questions to their advantage.
The 4-strokes are heavier, no two ways about it, they do not accelerate like a 2-stroke does, no two ways about it. A new one will cost quite a bit compared to a used two stroke. Your choice.
As far as the weight goes while trailering, if the transom will hold the thrust load it will certainly not give up during trailering. If you can trailer in the down position there is very little relative movement of the engine or the transom.
 
Thanks Pappy! Good info, again. . . and i just realized I was calling you Donor cause that's what's above your photo; i wasn't looking high enough. . . Apologies. . . wife is right, i'm an idiot :)
 
Unless I was operating on waters with 2 cycle restrictions I would stay with a 2 cycle engine. A lot less maintenance and moving parts and good ones are still plentiful. I just put a 1994 Johnson 30hp on a 14.4 Sea Nymph that runs terrific and only paid $350.00 for it with the remote controls.
 
Thanks Bonz. . . No restrictions where i fish. . . So is it just a matter of watching and waiting for something on Craigslist and the like? I can't think (or find) anyone that makes a "New" 2-cycle motor. . . Seems like all the big-name motor companies are only cranking out 4-strokes these days. Maybe i'm not looking in the right places?
 

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