Small 2 strokes in the rest of the world

While on a trip outside of the country, I had a good chance to look over a bunch of two stroke motors that were attached to inflatable dinghies (tenders) for larger boats. They had motors ranging in size from 6 to 18 HP, and all were newish. Brands were Tohatsu, Yamaha and Mercury, plus some other name I never heard of but looked a lot like the Tohatsu. All were tiny compared to todays lumbering 4 stroke engines sold in the US. For example, the 18 hp Tohatsu, was about the same size of a 6 HP 4 stroke here, maybe even a little smaller. I would guess its weight at 60-70 lbs. Motors like this would be absolutely phenomenal on a little tinny, given their weight to horsepower ratio. So my question is: why cant we get these here in the US? Have they been outlawed?

Thanks!

Blame the tree huggers in Cal for it

tomme boy said:

Blame the tree huggers in Cal for it

Click to expand...

You can live for today or live for your own and your descendant's future. If you can breathe the air wherever you live you can also thank the Cal tree huggers for that.

This man lives in China. I'll bet he can buy all the two-stroke motors he wants...

When I was a kid I remember swimming in a lake that the entire surface was covered with a rainbow slick from exhaust oil... Not sure we'd want to go back to those days with the amount of people we have now... The population in this country is almost double what it was in the 1950's. My 16:1 '53 Scott Atwater leaves a rainbow trail wherever I go...

I believe those engines are made like they used to make them back then... higher oil to gas ratios and sloppy... They achieve higher horsepower by inefficiently burning more gas .... and dumping lots of it into the exhaust system..

Ask all the folks that are pissing and moaning about the US pulling out about the Paris agreement, I am sure you will get your answer. LOL

nccatfisher said:

Ask all the folks that are pissing and moaning about the US pulling out about the Paris agreement, I am sure you will get your answer. LOL

Click to expand...

Most of them are just as ignorant as the people who support pulling out. There are pros and cons to both positions, and I bet the masses aren't aware of either.

I for one agree that because two strokes by design introduce measurably more hydrocarbons into their exhaust that their exclusion from meeting the environmental requirements capable of being met by four strokes should be limited to engine sizes where 4 strokes aren't a viable option. Otherwise in a given power class size they should be held to the same standard of cleanliness.

As the OP, this post seems to have gone off track. My original question is: "Why cant we get these (small 2-strokes) in the US. Have they been outlawed"?

I don't care if someone or another is to blame for pollution, my question had to do with what the law is regarding the availability of newly manufactured small 2 strokes.

And lest we think this question applies only to some foreign country, how about many of us who have perfectly good - albeit old - 2 stroke engines - are these grandfathered under whatever law applies?

Thanks!

Smallmouth Fool

Sorry - thought it was pretty obvious that the only motors sold here currently are the ones which meet the current emissions requirements, if you've come across something overseas not available here you're likely looking at something that fails local standards, but the standards are the only thing you'll be able to lookup here.

There won't be a law going brand by brand through all the manufacturers out there specifying which of their products conform and which do not. Manufacturers will submit a product or line for certification & only those which pass will be allowed to be sold.

Here's a link to the DOT for you to start searching what the acceptable emissions are - but you'll need the manufacturer's specifications for any motor you're ogling to see if it's compliant or not. If it's compliant and not sold then it's on the manufacturer for not marketing it here.

https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_41.html

These only apply to the manufacturers at the original point of sale. There is nothing requiring older motors to be brought up to current standards. However, at least in the auto industry it is illegal to operate a motor on a public road that is not DOT approved, I don't know if you brought one of these motors in from outside the country if you'd have an issue (if ever investigated which the odds of happening are beyond slim.)

https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/

Here you go. You can get either types of motors. It is all about emmissions.

Mercury did a study back in the late 0's in a lake they own that they did all of their testing in. They checked everytime they did testing and there was NO oil or gas found. The gas and oil would evaperate off of the lake within minutes.

The reason that 2 strokes got picked on was because of the smoke. That was why California was the first to push for a ban on 2 strokes. They even had a ban at first on the Optimax and Ficht motors because they were a 2 stroke. Say what you want about the 2 strokes but there is no where near enough of them to make any difference at all. Do you know what actually made the biggest difference? Your lawn mower. Requiring them to clean up has made more of a difference than anything else that has been done.

Here ya go . . . and you can even bypass Harbor Freight and WalMart!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Popular-Hot-sales-factory-whole-sales-Anqidi-2-stroke-18-HP-water-cooled-outboard-motors-rubber/32812823459.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.22.JkUai9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10155_10062_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_5030014_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10182_10078_10079_10073_10123_10189_142-10102,searchweb201603_16,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=49657491-92e5-4394-8c79-1c8e21dfcc0b&algo_expid=ecc0449e-b6e5-4c5f-a0d9-f149e66645fa-5&algo_pvid=ecc0449e-b6e5-4c5f-a0d9-f149e66645fa

PATRIOT said:

Here ya go . . . and you can even bypass Harbor Freight and WalMart!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Popular-Hot-sales-factory-whole-sales-Anqidi-2-stroke-18-HP-water-cooled-outboard-motors-rubber/32812823459.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.22.JkUai9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10155_10062_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_5030014_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10182_10078_10079_10073_10123_10189_142-10102,searchweb201603_16,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=49657491-92e5-4394-8c79-1c8e21dfcc0b&algo_expid=ecc0449e-b6e5-4c5f-a0d9-f149e66645fa-5&algo_pvid=ecc0449e-b6e5-4c5f-a0d9-f149e66645fa

Click to expand...

Honestly might not be bad, if you could look up the specifics of it and find out who really makes it, could be a tohatsu or something. That way you could find replacement parts as needed.

Very interesting I'll keep that in mind.

PATRIOT said:

Here ya go . . . and you can even bypass Harbor Freight and WalMart!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Popular-Hot-sales-factory-whole-sales-Anqidi-2-stroke-18-HP-water-cooled-outboard-motors-rubber/32812823459.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.22.JkUai9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10155_10062_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_5030014_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10182_10078_10079_10073_10123_10189_142-10102,searchweb201603_16,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=49657491-92e5-4394-8c79-1c8e21dfcc0b&algo_expid=ecc0449e-b6e5-4c5f-a0d9-f149e66645fa-5&algo_pvid=ecc0449e-b6e5-4c5f-a0d9-f149e66645fa

Click to expand...

I doubt you would be able to buy this legally in California. Doesn't have the CARB 3-Star rating.

I've seen enough slicks on the water to not get too worked up over my state's regulations for new outboards. Right now, other than in a few lakes, there is nothing to stop someone using old two strokes in California. I would not expect that the state would mandate prohibition of older dirty two-strokes. What I think is more likely is the governing bodies of lakes/reservoirs will start requiring cleaner motors.

onthewater102 said:

nccatfisher said:

Ask all the folks that are pissing and moaning about the US pulling out about the Paris agreement, I am sure you will get your answer. LOL

Click to expand...

Most of them are just as ignorant as the people who support pulling out. There are pros and cons to both positions, and I bet the masses aren't aware of either.

I for one agree that because two strokes by design introduce measurably more hydrocarbons into their exhaust that their exclusion from meeting the environmental requirements capable of being met by four strokes should be limited to engine sizes where 4 strokes aren't a viable option. Otherwise in a given power class size they should be held to the same standard of cleanliness.

Click to expand...

2 strokes like the Optimax yes I did use the dreaded Optimax as an example run so clean it is a very tight race between them and 4 strokes.

I had a 75 and the fuel and oil consumption on that thing was unbelievable.


As to us pulling out of the Paris deal. That was a no brainer. The major polluters were basically contributing nothing and we were pledging to foot the lions share. No doubt we are capable of policing our own and should. We could "suggest" other countries do this and that and they are going to do just what they do in all other matters, piss off.

2 strokes like the Optimax yes I did use the dreaded Optimax as an example run so clean it is a very tight race between them and 4 strokes.
[/quote]

Yeah, OptiMax has the same ultra low emissions rating that is given to four strokes. Off the top of my head, Evinrude and Yamaha also have direct injected two-strokes with ultra low emissions ratings. Tohatsu too.

I don't think we are off topic at all. We are discussing why there are no carb 2 strokes left in the US. I had a 150 optimax and I will tell you one thing about them, They actually use MORE oil than the EFI version 2 stroke. I traded in the 150 optimax for a 175 EFI Merc and my oil useage went in half of what the opti used.

Reason is, the opti uses a 6hp 2 stroke block as an air compressor to shoot air through the gas mix into the chamber. So you had to oil that thing on top of the actual motor. I was fishing tournaments every week and the oil cost was getting more than the gas cost.

And I totally agree that there should be NO regs on 50hp and under. The EPA even admitted that the main polluter was the lawn equipment. But we had to go under the regs first. Heck they sell all kinds of motors for OFF ROAD USE ONLY that has no regs at all. Outboards should be the same thing as they are never on road. It is the same thing as we should also not have to pay the gas tax as boats are not used on the road. Same as gas for your lawn mower. Some states you can get an exemption at tax time for this but not mine.