Best repowering for old boat?

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Cruiseliner59

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When I got my boat it already had a 115 mercury on it. I started it on starting fluid just to make sure it would run. Didn't run it much. With the growing number of lakes banning 2 strokes, and knowing I have to replace everything control wise I'm thinking about repowering. I've been researching and they are all about the same price wise so that leads me to ask what people have run and their experiences. What problems they have or how great it was. Help me narrow down the field, please?
 
The new Evinrude 3-cylinder 115hp HO G2 direct injection 2-stroke OB will be the lightest, most fuel efficient and cleanest running OB you could ever put on a boat, for today's technology motors. Plus it has a torque curve beyond belief. I myself plan to get the 150hp model next year. Lighter in weight by a longshot compared to heavy 4-strokes.
 
Cruiseliner59 said:
With the growing number of lakes banning 2 strokes
He must be in some state that that is banning 2 stroke use from his post, that wouldn't help him much.
 
what is the allure of the evinrude (BRP)? It's no lighter than yamaha. It's HEAVIER (by like 15+ lbs) than the standard yamaha 115. It's 2 stroke, meaning you have to add oil to the tank periodically (more stuff to do). Why spend more money on it when you can get a 4 stroke yamaha which is a 4 cylinder, silky smooth, cannot hear it running at idle (honestly....I just spent 4 hours yesterday on a boat powered by a 115 V-Max)? It just makes no sense to me. Yamaha's a proven design. Well respected. You gotta change oil every 50 hours, or whatever the interval is, everything else is like evinrood, water pump once in a while, it's real easy to maintain. I will never understand why evin-rude still keeps building 2 stroke engines aside from the fact that maybe they don't know what a 4 stroke is? Or perhaps they ain't been able to build one yet that will stay together? Oh, I forget evinrude says their "engine" is "less complex"--and that is bull. The engine itself is, but everything that is needed to RUN the engine is not, just the opposite.

For that matter, even Mercury's 4 stroke is better than a 2 stroke. Little heavier than yamaha but not by much. I ain't been a fan of Mercury though, a lot of their engines were built by yamaha and for a while some yamaha's were built by mercury (even into the 2000's on some of the 25hp motors).

Suzuki builds a decent motor too. So does Tohatsu. Thing is, though, along the coast line you see about 85% yamaha, 10 % merc and 5% everything else. Wonder why that is?
 
Cruiseliner59 said:
I live in California. I have been looking at the evinrude. It is the only California legal 2 stroke.
The Evinrude is also the ONLY OB motor to meet the tougher new EU emissions laws, where 4-strokes will have to add catalytic converters to hopefully achieve the rating the ‘Rude meets now. Don’t confuse old 2-strokes w/ the new technology ones where the fuel & oil are direct injected separately.
 
I don't have any special knowledge of one outboard vs the other. What I do know is at the foothill lakes I frequent in Northern California I see a lot of Yamaha outboards. I suspect that Yamaha dealers/shops are readily available. For whatever it is worth.
 
I like Evinrude, the 2 strokes can't be beat for torque, every stroke is a power stroke. I've had good experiences with the direct injection technology with bombardier snowmobiles (ski-doo). That being said, I've been fishing all week in a salmon derby out of a friend's boat powered by a 2000 Yamaha 115 four stroke. It's is very quiet at idle and has a mean growl at speed but you can still talk over it. I'm impressed with the fuel economy which is comparable to an older 70 2 stroke. This motor has run flawlessly since new. I wouldn't hesitate to own a Yamaha. Like I tell everyone who asks what brand they should buy; Find a local dealer that you like and who has a good reputation and buy what they sell. All the big brands make good motors.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

 
Yes, indeed, there is a power stroke on every revolution for each cylinder. BUT what they don't tell you is that there is only about 1/2 the torque produced per cycle, so it ends up nearly a wash in the end, with some unburned oil ending up in the waterways. That's why some areas have outlawed 2 strokes. The torque difference is negligible nowadays.


I hear the argument every day at work, and the argument is always started by a die-hard 2 smoker that has never owned a 4 stroke outboard, OR they're comparing a 200hp 2 stroke to a 20hp 4 stroke (apples to grapes comparisons). There are so many advantages to 4 stroke that unless you've spent time in a boat that has one, you don't know what your missing.

A while back I was blessed to go offshore fishing with a guy, boat was powered by a F300 yamaha. It is absolutely 100% silent at idle. It was sitting there running at the dock and you could not feel one iota of vibration, zero noise, the only way I knew it was running was by water pump pee water hitting the bay, and that was the only sound. Nice but I'm skeptical, are we gonna need earplugs at 6000 RPM full throttle running full speed? I was sitting about 18" away from the cowling, and my friend sitting right next to me, same distance just other side of the boat. We were carrying on a conversation just fine. We had to raise our voice but we were NOT hollering the least bit. I can't anyway due to prior voice injury from years back. We were even chatting it up with the captain who was about midway to the bow at the console. Mind you, the motor was at 5900 RPM at 34 knots running out into the gulf of Mexico about 15 miles offshore. In the past I've owned bass boats with 90hp and later on 175hp both were 2 stroke ( 3 cyl mariner and V6 Mercury respectively), and a conversation was impossible while at anything more than about 1/4 throttle. I will not own another Brunswick (merc/mariner) motor if I have a choice....worked on them as much as getting to actually use them. It was always something, usually minor. I sold Mariner and Mercury from 88-96, and we were ALWAYS busy fixing them. Good money in them as far as repairs go. Yamaha came along and we were already a Yamaha motorcycle dealer, so it was just fitting, we dumped Merc/Mariner and honestly the motor repairs mostly stopped. Mercury also had some issues with warranty reimbursements, but that was a long time ago and shouldn't really be a consideration now.

Evinrude? Out of business. All they use now is the name. The motor is made by BRP, who also owns Can-Am. Stability? Who knows when evinrude is going to change hands again, and what is going to happen to parts availability when it happens? I hate seeing businesses going belly-up like OMC did, but I understand that there are reasons for it that we never know about until it happens. I'm concerned about Suzuki too.

I don't know about y'all but when I'm on the water I like to relax, and relaxing is a lot easier when you don't have to worry about the motor. It's also easier when the motor is much more confident in starting idling and running quiet.

How is the dealer network? Is Evinrude dealer close by when you need them?

Also on the ETEC's, at least on the 25hp, you HAVE to run THEIR oil...UNLESS the ECU is reprogrammed, then you can run whatever you want. That tells me that though it might be "clean"...on THEIR oil, after reprogramming, is it still as "clean" as they advertise?? Reminds me of the Volkswagen debacle. With a 4 stroke, you run whatever you want, and no programming is necessary and it runs on 87 octane (most of them do) plain ol' gas. And you don't have the worry of adding oil to the tank every so often either. Think about it. You're out fishing, way out in the lake. You get an alarm, motor is low on oil. What do you do? Run back to the ramp, then go find their specific oil somewhere? Out here, it might be an hours' drive to find it (or more). Some of the areas I fish don't have docks that sell oil or gas. Most of those areas don't have ramps, secluded, no cell signal, nothing but me, the water, and fish. Last thing I need to worry about is the motor and/or it's oil.

I want to like them but they haven't proven anything to me that is impressive. They cost more (at least the 25's do), they make more noise, they use a little more fuel, they're heavier, they're more complex as a whole, and they require specific lubricating oil. Everything that a 2 stroke is NOT supposed to be.

Last monday I was on the river, had the 35 mile stretch to myself from 0600 until about 0930. I heard a motor coming up river, it was real foggy so I knew they weren't going very fast. About 40 minutes later they passed me, about 1/2 throttle barely on plane. 25hp ETEC. Smelled the smoke not long after they passed. Some people like it I guess. Then it was audible for another 35 minutes after it passed me. An hour or so after I couldn't hear it, a boat passes me with a 40hp yamaha (prop drive), about the same barely on plane. Never heard it coming until it was maybe 30 seconds from me, just upriver there is a gravel bar and then a bend. I could still see those guys but couldn't hear them anymore, then they disappeared around the bend. Then later on a 15hp Yamaha 2 stroke powered flat bottom passed me, stopped to say hi and check to see if I was doing any good (nope...never tell the truth). Heard them coming for a long ways out, heard them for a long way afterward just like the ETEC 25. Amazing how much difference there is between 2 and 4 stroke motors just in noise alone.
 
Mercury 115hp is the lightest 115hp on the market, also probably the cheapest, it has a great reputation and is the only one made in the US by a US company.
 
Thank you everyone for the information. It's what I was looking for. Real world, not sales brochure hype. I still haven't made a decision yet on what I want to go with. With everything I plan for this boat I want ease of service on and off the water. I know they all have good and bads so I will probably make my decision on price and availability of service. Getting past the hype I haven't heard good things about brp honoring warranty work. Reading reviews is deceiving because most times people only send reviews if they have a issue. Happy customer doesn't have time to write reviews, they are too busy enjoying the product. Back to thinking this thru. Lol
 
Cruiseliner59 said:
Thank you everyone for the information. It's what I was looking for. Real world, not sales brochure hype. I still haven't made a decision yet on what I want to go with. With everything I plan for this boat I want ease of service on and off the water. I know they all have good and bads so I will probably make my decision on price and availability of service. Getting past the hype I haven't heard good things about brp honoring warranty work. Reading reviews is deceiving because most times people only send reviews if they have a issue. Happy customer doesn't have time to write reviews, they are too busy enjoying the product. Back to thinking this thru. Lol

The mechanical aspect of Etecs is nothing new, they are a culmination of the better designs that OMC has been building for decades. The electronics are complex, but an EFI 4 stroke is just as bad.

A lot of these new 4 stroke powerheads are astronomically expensive to repair, often exceeding the value of the motor.

Mercury is terrible about dropping parts support, especially on smaller motors. Even a lot of recent motors have parts that are NLA, stuff that is not even 10 years old.
 

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