Pondering trolling motor battery selection

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crannman
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 17:43
Location: Monroe Connecticut

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by crannman »

Lithium Battery Product Search - Group 31, 110 Ah for 62 lb thrust trolling motor

Appreciate the reply’s received so far regarding lithium batteries! My search and learning continues in order to take a chance and purchase one! The question remains, which one?

Looking for a proven quality group 31, 100 amp hour lithium battery to connect to a 62 lb. thrust trolling motor at a price point of around $700.00.

The previous posts have been very helpful! Thank you!

Learned that apparently ALL lithium batteries are produced in China so need to deal with distributors in the U.S.

My take in reviewing some of these batteries is that the casings look the same and the only difference may be the sticker for the brand name they stick on the front!

The warning I learned is that Lithium-Ion batteries and Lithium Polymer batteries are the most energy dense of the Lithium batteries, but they are lacking in safety and have been to known to catch fire! The most common type of Lithium-Ion is LiCoO2, or Lithium Cobalt Oxide.

So my search is for a LiFePo4 type lithium batteries which appears to be a safer bet!

I also learned that you need to be careful with the cheaper lithium batteries as they may have a mix of older and newer cells that have a higher risk of failing early.

Another thing to learn is about the Battery Management System, the lithium batteries on board computer!

“A battery management system has to (1) distinguish between charging and discharging current limits, (2) dynamically control single cell voltage and temperature during charging and discharging, and give an early warning before disconnecting the pack, (3) allow interdependent or time-dependent cutoff levels, and (4) allow cell equalization (balancing).”
From: Encyclopedia of Electrochemical Power Sources, 2009

Man, there are a lot of different brands of lithium batteries out there!

There are many more than just the ones below that I reviewed but I checked out the following 26 batteries for price, reliability, owner reviews, options such as blue tooth, including a charger etc. and warranty process.

Here is a summary of just some of the ones out there that I checked out.

ToBattery, eBay $498.00
Voltxcell, Amazon $589.99
Ampere Time, Amazon $569.99
LITHTECH, eBay $499.00
DUAL TRAK, eBay $559.00
SolarFam, eBay $649.00
BtrPower, eBay $565.00
BMS, eBay $627.94
Battle Born, Battle Born $899.00, Amazon $949.00
ICON, eBay $999.00
Custom Marine, eBay $899.00
RELION, eBay $1,050.00
Dakota, Dakota $899.00
Expert Power, eBay $699.99
Renogy, eBay $799.99
Banshee, eBay $950.00
VMAXTANKS, Walmart $799.00
Fly Power, Amazon $486.00
CHINS, Amazon $539.00
WEIZE, Amazon $549.99
SCREMOWER, Amazon $486.00
LYNX, Amazon $610.00
MIGHTY MAX, Amazon $599.95
AIMS, Amazon $749.00
Torque Power, Amazon $530.00
VoltXcell, Amazon $589.99

Looked at a few Best Rated articles and providing this recent one.

Best Rated:
1. Renogy, Amazon $799.00
2. Battle Born, Amazon $949.00
3. Torque Power, Amazon $699.00
4. AIMS, Amazon $749.00

I think Battle Born and Dakota seem to be more established based on their web sites and reviews but are a bit out of my price range.

So, anyway, I’m leaning towards purchasing from Battery Max. I emailed them to see what they have to say about their warranty process.

I have not yet emailed any other lithium battery suppliers other than Battery Max to research their warranty and return process.

Having to have the battery tested from like Advanced Auto and sending Battery Max to assess the warranty claim is interesting. If I read this right it looks as though I would need to pay to have it shipped back.

MIGHTY MAX BATTERY
WARRANTY POLICY
Limited Warranty is respected from the date of purchase for all Mighty Max Battery products.Warranty replacement will only be issued to and through the original purchaser. Replacement is not transferable. Warranty applies to products that are affected by faulty workmanship or materials.For all products eligible for the warranty replacement a print out test result is required to the Mighty Max Battery Customer Service Department to process and respect the warranty. The test must be done by a third party.Businesses that have performed the required testing on our batteries at no cost are: AutoZone O’Reilly Auto Parts Batteries Plus Walmart Advanced Auto Parts And any reputable battery retailerOutside businesses are not obligated to perform these tests on products that are not sold by them. Please continue your search until a business is obtained and will run the required test. Mighty Max will not reimburse any costs to have testing completed .
Acceptable Test Result Not Acceptable Test Result
<img src="/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/warranty1.png" /> <img src="/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/warranty2.jpg" />
The following terms are only applicable to Sealed Lead Acid and GEL battery products. Other items (including but not limited to Lithium Batteries, Solar Panels, etc) is not applicable. Other rules apply. Contact us for more detail.
Test results must clearly state that the battery is faulty. Results such as charge required and at home tests are not acceptable. Each battery must have its own test results/ticket #. You may be required to return the product at Mighty Max Battery’s discretion regardless of test results.
Mighty Max Battery has the right to test and charge the product before agreeing to the claim. In this event the customer is responsible for the shipping costs. Mighty Max Battery reserves the right to make product changes without notification which may alter the physical appearance of the original ordered product. Any defects caused by natural forces, misuse, abuse, physical damage, improper charging, sulfation, improper application made by the customer will result in disqualification of warranty fulfillment.
Mighty Max Battery liability in all circumstances shall not exceed the purchased price paid for the product. The end user assumes all responsibility for any and all personal injury and property damage resulting from the use, maintenance and installation of the Mighty Max Battery product.
Please see below for specific warranty policies that apply to your purchased Mighty Max Battery based on the price per product:

$1 – $50 (price per product)
-1-year warranty
-Testing results not required
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs

$51 – $100 (price per product)
-1-year warranty
-Test results are required
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs

$101 and above (price per product)
-1-year warranty
-Third party results not acceptable
-Must ship defective product to Mighty Max Battery warehouse
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs

Other rules may apply to bulk orders, please speak to our Customer Service Department (855-378-7135) to determine these rules. Warranty time will be carried from the purchase date of the original product by the replacement product. A new product warranty date will not be issued for replacement products. Warranties will not be issued if products are carried or used outside of the United States.
RETURN POLICY
1. All returns must be phoned in for a return authorization number prior to shipment to insure proper handling of your return. All return authorization numbers (RMA) are valid for 14 days only. A processing fee of 15 percent will apply to the value of all merchandise returned for a refund.
2. Returns are permitted within 30 days from the date of receipt of merchandise. Returned merchandise will be accepted by us only if all conditions A, B, C, D and E below are met. Shipping and handling charges are not refundable. We are not responsible for any shipping and handling charges of merchandise being returned to us.
* All returns must include original factory box, original factory packaging (foam, plastic, wrappings, etc.) blank, unfilled warranty cards, all instruction booklets and paperwork. Do not deface original factory cartons or packaging in any manner. UPC codes cannot be removed the box. We will not accept a return if packaging is not in its original condition.
* All returned merchandise must be in its original mint and clean condition. Returns on damaged or scratched merchandise will not be accepted. Units that are defective may need to go back to the manufacturer for service directly and not be shipped to our facilities. If product is manipulated, return will not be accepted.
* All returns must include all the factory accessories which come with the item.
* Packages that are refused will be charged for the actual shipping cost both to and from your location unless pre-authorized by our customer service department.
3. Returned merchandise which is lost or damaged in transit is not our responsibility. Please insure your return with your carrier. It is your responsibility to file claims with the carrier upon the discovery of the problem.
4. Once your return is received and checked in you should expect to be refunded within 7 days. You will be refunded to the same method used for the purchase.

(break)

Further:
I was glad to have received a reply within a day or so from Mighty Max regarding product questions and the warranty question. I saw some reviews where customer support was lacking, surprisingly one regarding VMAXTANKS, whom I was considering when initially shopping for an AGM.

Given the cost to invest in a lithium battery I’m taking my time to try to make a good decision.

Also considering the following:
- dimensions of the battery to fit my current battery box.
- Being able to use my current battery terminal quick disconnects. May need to buy screw in terminal posts to replace the M8 or M6 threaded bolts. What I don’t like here is always making sure the that the terminal posts are screwed in tight to avoid a problem and being careful not to damage the threads in the battery! Will probably use Loctite blue 242 thread lock!
- Volt meter. Advised by the maker of my Trolling Motor, Newport Vessels, that the 5 dot LED battery indicator located on top of the motor control may not work with a lithium battery. I have a volt meter mounter next to my battery box and have to make it’s compatible.
- Make sure my current 60 amp circuit breaker will work with the higher voltage lithium battery.
- Cost of purchasing a battery charger made for lithium batteries.

Whew! Lots to consider! Thanks everyone for your review of the above posts and appreciate any further reply’s on the topic!
8)

MrGiggles
Posts: 501
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 21:42
3
Location: Springfield, MO

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by MrGiggles »

crannman wrote: 28 Feb 2021, 12:49 Lithium Battery Product Search - Group 31, 110 Ah for 62 lb thrust trolling motor

Appreciate the reply’s received so far regarding lithium batteries! My search and learning continues in order to take a chance and purchase one! The question remains, which one?

Looking for a proven quality group 31, 100 amp hour lithium battery to connect to a 62 lb. thrust trolling motor at a price point of around $700.00.

The previous posts have been very helpful! Thank you!

Learned that apparently ALL lithium batteries are produced in China so need to deal with distributors in the U.S.

My take in reviewing some of these batteries is that the casings look the same and the only difference may be the sticker for the brand name they stick on the front!

The warning I learned is that Lithium-Ion batteries and Lithium Polymer batteries are the most energy dense of the Lithium batteries, but they are lacking in safety and have been to known to catch fire! The most common type of Lithium-Ion is LiCoO2, or Lithium Cobalt Oxide.

So my search is for a LiFePo4 type lithium batteries which appears to be a safer bet!

I also learned that you need to be careful with the cheaper lithium batteries as they may have a mix of older and newer cells that have a higher risk of failing early.

Another thing to learn is about the Battery Management System, the lithium batteries on board computer!

“A battery management system has to (1) distinguish between charging and discharging current limits, (2) dynamically control single cell voltage and temperature during charging and discharging, and give an early warning before disconnecting the pack, (3) allow interdependent or time-dependent cutoff levels, and (4) allow cell equalization (balancing).”
From: Encyclopedia of Electrochemical Power Sources, 2009

Man, there are a lot of different brands of lithium batteries out there!

There are many more than just the ones below that I reviewed but I checked out the following 26 batteries for price, reliability, owner reviews, options such as blue tooth, including a charger etc. and warranty process.

Here is a summary of just some of the ones out there that I checked out.

ToBattery, eBay $498.00
Voltxcell, Amazon $589.99
Ampere Time, Amazon $569.99
LITHTECH, eBay $499.00
DUAL TRAK, eBay $559.00
SolarFam, eBay $649.00
BtrPower, eBay $565.00
BMS, eBay $627.94
Battle Born, Battle Born $899.00, Amazon $949.00
ICON, eBay $999.00
Custom Marine, eBay $899.00
RELION, eBay $1,050.00
Dakota, Dakota $899.00
Expert Power, eBay $699.99
Renogy, eBay $799.99
Banshee, eBay $950.00
VMAXTANKS, Walmart $799.00
Fly Power, Amazon $486.00
CHINS, Amazon $539.00
WEIZE, Amazon $549.99
SCREMOWER, Amazon $486.00
LYNX, Amazon $610.00
MIGHTY MAX, Amazon $599.95
AIMS, Amazon $749.00
Torque Power, Amazon $530.00
VoltXcell, Amazon $589.99

Looked at a few Best Rated articles and providing this recent one.

Best Rated:
1. Renogy, Amazon $799.00
2. Battle Born, Amazon $949.00
3. Torque Power, Amazon $699.00
4. AIMS, Amazon $749.00

I think Battle Born and Dakota seem to be more established based on their web sites and reviews but are a bit out of my price range.

So, anyway, I’m leaning towards purchasing from Battery Max. I emailed them to see what they have to say about their warranty process.

I have not yet emailed any other lithium battery suppliers other than Battery Max to research their warranty and return process.

Having to have the battery tested from like Advanced Auto and sending Battery Max to assess the warranty claim is interesting. If I read this right it looks as though I would need to pay to have it shipped back.

MIGHTY MAX BATTERY
WARRANTY POLICY
Limited Warranty is respected from the date of purchase for all Mighty Max Battery products.Warranty replacement will only be issued to and through the original purchaser. Replacement is not transferable. Warranty applies to products that are affected by faulty workmanship or materials.For all products eligible for the warranty replacement a print out test result is required to the Mighty Max Battery Customer Service Department to process and respect the warranty. The test must be done by a third party.Businesses that have performed the required testing on our batteries at no cost are: AutoZone O’Reilly Auto Parts Batteries Plus Walmart Advanced Auto Parts And any reputable battery retailerOutside businesses are not obligated to perform these tests on products that are not sold by them. Please continue your search until a business is obtained and will run the required test. Mighty Max will not reimburse any costs to have testing completed .
Acceptable Test Result Not Acceptable Test Result
<img src="/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/warranty1.png" /> <img src="/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/warranty2.jpg" />
The following terms are only applicable to Sealed Lead Acid and GEL battery products. Other items (including but not limited to Lithium Batteries, Solar Panels, etc) is not applicable. Other rules apply. Contact us for more detail.
Test results must clearly state that the battery is faulty. Results such as charge required and at home tests are not acceptable. Each battery must have its own test results/ticket #. You may be required to return the product at Mighty Max Battery’s discretion regardless of test results.
Mighty Max Battery has the right to test and charge the product before agreeing to the claim. In this event the customer is responsible for the shipping costs. Mighty Max Battery reserves the right to make product changes without notification which may alter the physical appearance of the original ordered product. Any defects caused by natural forces, misuse, abuse, physical damage, improper charging, sulfation, improper application made by the customer will result in disqualification of warranty fulfillment.
Mighty Max Battery liability in all circumstances shall not exceed the purchased price paid for the product. The end user assumes all responsibility for any and all personal injury and property damage resulting from the use, maintenance and installation of the Mighty Max Battery product.
Please see below for specific warranty policies that apply to your purchased Mighty Max Battery based on the price per product:

$1 – $50 (price per product)
-1-year warranty
-Testing results not required
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs

$51 – $100 (price per product)
-1-year warranty
-Test results are required
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs

$101 and above (price per product)
-1-year warranty
-Third party results not acceptable
-Must ship defective product to Mighty Max Battery warehouse
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs

Other rules may apply to bulk orders, please speak to our Customer Service Department (855-378-7135) to determine these rules. Warranty time will be carried from the purchase date of the original product by the replacement product. A new product warranty date will not be issued for replacement products. Warranties will not be issued if products are carried or used outside of the United States.
RETURN POLICY
1. All returns must be phoned in for a return authorization number prior to shipment to insure proper handling of your return. All return authorization numbers (RMA) are valid for 14 days only. A processing fee of 15 percent will apply to the value of all merchandise returned for a refund.
2. Returns are permitted within 30 days from the date of receipt of merchandise. Returned merchandise will be accepted by us only if all conditions A, B, C, D and E below are met. Shipping and handling charges are not refundable. We are not responsible for any shipping and handling charges of merchandise being returned to us.
* All returns must include original factory box, original factory packaging (foam, plastic, wrappings, etc.) blank, unfilled warranty cards, all instruction booklets and paperwork. Do not deface original factory cartons or packaging in any manner. UPC codes cannot be removed the box. We will not accept a return if packaging is not in its original condition.
* All returned merchandise must be in its original mint and clean condition. Returns on damaged or scratched merchandise will not be accepted. Units that are defective may need to go back to the manufacturer for service directly and not be shipped to our facilities. If product is manipulated, return will not be accepted.
* All returns must include all the factory accessories which come with the item.
* Packages that are refused will be charged for the actual shipping cost both to and from your location unless pre-authorized by our customer service department.
3. Returned merchandise which is lost or damaged in transit is not our responsibility. Please insure your return with your carrier. It is your responsibility to file claims with the carrier upon the discovery of the problem.
4. Once your return is received and checked in you should expect to be refunded within 7 days. You will be refunded to the same method used for the purchase.

(break)

Further:
I was glad to have received a reply within a day or so from Mighty Max regarding product questions and the warranty question. I saw some reviews where customer support was lacking, surprisingly one regarding VMAXTANKS, whom I was considering when initially shopping for an AGM.

Given the cost to invest in a lithium battery I’m taking my time to try to make a good decision.

Also considering the following:
- dimensions of the battery to fit my current battery box.
- Being able to use my current battery terminal quick disconnects. May need to buy screw in terminal posts to replace the M8 or M6 threaded bolts. What I don’t like here is always making sure the that the terminal posts are screwed in tight to avoid a problem and being careful not to damage the threads in the battery! Will probably use Loctite blue 242 thread lock!
- Volt meter. Advised by the maker of my Trolling Motor, Newport Vessels, that the 5 dot LED battery indicator located on top of the motor control may not work with a lithium battery. I have a volt meter mounter next to my battery box and have to make it’s compatible.
- Make sure my current 60 amp circuit breaker will work with the higher voltage lithium battery.
- Cost of purchasing a battery charger made for lithium batteries.

Whew! Lots to consider! Thanks everyone for your review of the above posts and appreciate any further reply’s on the topic!
You might consider Valence batteries, salvaged from medical equipment. Pretty cheap in comparison, guys seem to have pretty good luck with them, using them in campers, solar setups, big boats, etc.

Since you want the batteries to be easily removable, using a heavy duty plug like this would be preferable instead of fooling with the battery terminals every time.

https://www.wiringproducts.com/50-amp-h ... connectors

Your trolling motor battery guage will still work, but it will not be accurate since lithiums have a much smaller operating voltage range. You might consider a separate battery monitor, however many of the higher end lithium batteries already include expandable BMS, some even have bluetooth which allows you to view battery status through your phone.

Separate monitors are pretty cheap though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Monito ... Sw89lcozJm

User avatar
InSaneFisherMan
Posts: 113
Joined: 11 Aug 2020, 14:33

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by InSaneFisherMan »

Just a couple of answers.

Trolling motor battery gauges, almost all are some form of voltmeter. They will still show the appropriate amount of bars based on battery voltage. Therefore they will work as designed. What has changed is they are not very good at determining the remaining capacity in lithium batteries, all bars lit may not be a battery at full capacity.

60 amp circuit breaker - this should be the lowest amp rated item in the circuit and I think has to be 6-10” from positive terminal. All wires positive and negative, connectors, switches, should be rated higher than the 60 amps. Pretty sure that lithium BMS protect the battery from over current, so if your motor requires a 60 amp breaker thats what you need.

User avatar
crannman
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 17:43
Location: Monroe Connecticut

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by crannman »

Got it! Thank you for your feedback!
8)

User avatar
InSaneFisherMan
Posts: 113
Joined: 11 Aug 2020, 14:33

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by InSaneFisherMan »

Just some info.

ABYC has recently adopted/approved a document ABYC TE-13 Lithium Ion Batteries.

I am trying to locate a free copy of this document to understand the requirements when I switch to Lithium.

I know as a small tin boat owner many of us customize our boat and probably exceed ABYC standards and some do not.

So using ABYC standard is the best to start.

From ABYC web site:
In product liability lawsuits, ABYC Standards are the authoritative reference for evaluating issues of design, construction, maintenance, and product performance. ABYC is the US representative to ISO, and works to promote the needs of the US marine industry in relation to ISO.

User avatar
InSaneFisherMan
Posts: 113
Joined: 11 Aug 2020, 14:33

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by InSaneFisherMan »

I found, what appears to be a excerpt from TE-13.

Should vs shall seem to make these optional.

Interesting
EFDB6C98-30FD-4787-8855-2EC2FA363815.jpeg
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User avatar
crannman
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 17:43
Location: Monroe Connecticut

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by crannman »

Final Decision!

Well, after reviewing about 26 different lithium battery suppliers and based on information here and Facebook Jon boat forums, I finally decided to purchase from Amped Outdoors.

They seem like a solid company, their warranty process appears reasonably and customer support were responsive to my questions.

Also purchased the lithium battery charger they recommended. Felt that was a reasonable thing to do given the investment in this battery.

Expensive? Yes, but worth it to me having to lift a battery under 30 lbs. verses 70 lbs and if it lady’s as advertised then it’s about what I would pay in the long run for two (2) new 110 amp AGM batteries.

Decided to go with a plug instead of terminal connectors. Plan on using Loctite blue 252 on the terminal bolts and adding slippage lines as a visual installation to make sure they haven’t loosened up.

Will post some pictures of the battery installation when completed and performance after a few test runs on the water!

https://ampedoutdoors.com/products/copy ... proof-case
8)

User avatar
InSaneFisherMan
Posts: 113
Joined: 11 Aug 2020, 14:33

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by InSaneFisherMan »

Nice, please post updates on how you would rate the performance.

User avatar
crannman
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 17:43
Location: Monroe Connecticut

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by crannman »

Received Amped Outdoors 100Ah battery and charger today!

Very happy with the weight! I can’t believe I can lift a 100Ah battery with two fingers waist high!

23lb 100Ah deep cycle lithium battery! The AGM I was considering weighed 70lb! Nice to have a 47lb weight savings in my boat!

Battery and charger came very well packaged!

Currently working on wiring the plug connector.
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8)

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LDUBS
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Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by LDUBS »

23 lb 100-Ah -- wow! That is 44 lbs lighter than my 105 Ah AGM battery. I'm jealous.

Thanks for the thorough comparison of options. I don't know what drives the current pricing (no pun intended) but hope it migrates down by the time I need a new battery.
Have Rod - Will Fish

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crannman
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 17:43
Location: Monroe Connecticut

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by crannman »

Battery plug installed and compatible with lithium battery charger!
Planning to try out the new lithium battery set up next week!
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8)

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jethro
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Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by jethro »

Nice choice, I had a great purchase experience with Amped Outdoors when I built my battery box for camping.
I fish, therefore, I am.

1993 Starcraft SF 14 DLX side console with 25 hp Mercury 2 stroke
2003 Sylvan 2100 Profish walkthrough with 150 Mercury Saltwater and 6hp Mecury 4 stroke kicker

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crannman
Posts: 61
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 17:43
Location: Monroe Connecticut

Pondering trolling motor battery selection

Post by crannman »

jethro wrote: 05 Apr 2021, 10:41 Nice choice, I had a great purchase experience with Amped Outdoors when I built my battery box for camping.
Thank you! Hopefully will get out this week to try it out!
8)