Water Levels on smaller rivers...

Hey all,
This is something that has me a bit concerned, and I am sure others have thought about this already. I wanted to see what everyone thought about how the local small rivers would be this spring. To me, not having the normal snow pack to our north to provide melt off in the spring is really going to hurt the amount of water in our smaller rivers making some of them near impassible in places. I suppose all we can do is hope for above average rain fall, but it seems to me that a hard rain really only effects the level of the river in a positive way for maybe 5-7 days before falling again. Last year with all the snow, it seemed the rivers stayed perfect well in to mid-late summer even with limited rainfall due to a slow and steady supply of melt of in early spring and then the right amounts of rain. Is this a conern to anyone else? Maybe I am over thinking this, but I sure hope I am wrong. Otherwise it could require some travel to larger rivers for me...

There is some merit in your thinking....however, it really depends on each river and, where you are on each river. For example....you are probably talking about the Current, Meremac, Gasconade, etc..

The Meremac, in my neck of the woods was flooded most of last year. In your area, it probably was pretty good. Reason....I'm about 16 miles from the Mississippi junction and the Mississippi was very high last year. That raised the levels in the Meremac quite a bit around me...but probably didn't effect you as much.

I agree we could use some rain, (even the lakes around me are low right now), but I'm thinking average spring rain levels will bring things up to where they need to be. If not...we are in for a long dry summer.

Fender,
You are so right about last year. I remember that most of the year last year the Meremac was pretty high down on your end, but it stayed almost perfect for running here until almost August when it finally began to drop a bit. Here is to hoping for rain!

I’ll chime in on this only because the question was about rivers and rain runoff. I have lived on or fish rivers for most of my life. Your statement of 6-7 days of higher after a day or two of heavy for the most part is right on. The difference on some rivers being how many dams are on that river and how full is the reservoir behind it. The river I live on has five dams holding back H2O. Out here in the west dams and reservoir are quite common, and we can the benefits up into early spring. But we do get most of our water from the snow pack, if we don’t have between 120 to 130” on snow on the ground by this date we start talking about a dry winters.

I had the pleasure of doing my Army basic training and AIT at Fort Leonard Missouri (1973) There will always be a fond spot in my herat for the State of Missouri and the folks who live there… [-o<

They are some great people

Johnny,
The small river we were discussing has no dams on it...which is where I was getting the average of 5-7 days from high water to normal or low water. I sure wish we could dam it and control the flow...it would also be nice to have it dredged but those days are over! They voted down a huge lake project in this area some time ago that would have made for quite a boating/fishing attraction. If only :roll:

riverrunner5891 said:

Johnny,
The small river we were discussing has no dams on it...which is where I was getting the average of 5-7 days from high water to normal or low water. I sure wish we could dam it and control the flow...it would also be nice to have it dredged but those days are over! They voted down a huge lake project in this area some time ago that would have made for quite a boating/fishing attraction. If only :roll:

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I think you're the first person I've ever heard wish that the Meramec Basin Project would have went through. Do you realize that most of the river above Hwy 185 would be gone??

As for water levels, I wouldn't worry too much yet. Most guys I know with big boats don't get too concerned until the river stage at Sullivan (the guage is actually at Sappington Bridge) drops into the low two's, and us guys with small boats can run with water levels in the mid to high one's; something that we haven't seen in quite a while on the Meramec.

I haven't ran the Maramec any so don't have any say there. However, I just hope that for once the Missouri River isn't flooded all summer so I can actually do some catfishing on it and see the dikes!

Btw, you have a sweet looking rig riverrunner!

I am not sure I support placing a dam on the Meremac; I claim ignorance of the Meremac River, the only river I recall from my stay in Missouri is the Big Piney in the Ozarks

Most of Oregon dams serve one of two purposes (1) Farm irrigation (2) Hydro electric generation. The side benefit is the reservoirs provide for some incredible trout fishing….

In the Northwest where salmon spawning habitat has been impacted we have been removing dams, and surprising fish runs are showing marketable improvement :wink:

Seth, thank you for the compliments...looking forward to a fun summer with the new rig! Your boat is quite nice as well sir! Do you ever do the poker runs on the Gasconade? I think I will be doing the Boating for Buddies run for sure this year.

Brian J,
I do realize the circumstances that would come with the Meramec Basin Project and the loss of the river that is there now. We would, however, have a large LAKE instead to enjoy, plus it would have generated a good source for Hyrdo Electricity and would come in rather handy right now as the area is facing some pretty significant electricity rates (especially local municipalities). You must speak to the earlier generations in regards to this project, as I think most people in their 30s and younger would now support such a project. Yes, we would have lost some of our historic sites (caves & state parks) and that would be a shame, however, the increase in the local economy due to the new attraction would have been crazy. The problem is too much money from the greater St. Louis area was already invested at the Lake of the Ozarks and this is what really shut the project down, as the Lake of the Ozarks would have went bust due to the closer proximity of the Meramec Basin.

Anywho...not extactly what I intended to get into with the topic of this thread, but interesting conversation none the less!

riverrunner5891 said:

Seth, thank you for the compliments...looking forward to a fun summer with the new rig! Your boat is quite nice as well sir! Do you ever do the poker runs on the Gasconade? I think I will be doing the Boating for Buddies run for sure this year.

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I've done the Boating for Buddies poker run the past two years. It's a good time for sure! I plan on doing it again this year as well.

Seth,
Good to hear, I have heard that it is a great time. Do you guys usually run into much water patrol action on the Gasconade? Just curious as I haven't run it. Sounds like they usually have a pretty large turn out for the Boating for Buddies, and we are looking forward to it!

riverrunner5891 said:

Seth, thank you for the compliments...looking forward to a fun summer with the new rig! Your boat is quite nice as well sir! Do you ever do the poker runs on the Gasconade? I think I will be doing the Boating for Buddies run for sure this year.

Brian J,
I do realize the circumstances that would come with the Meramec Basin Project and the loss of the river that is there now. We would, however, have a large LAKE instead to enjoy, plus it would have generated a good source for Hyrdo Electricity and would come in rather handy right now as the area is facing some pretty significant electricity rates (especially local municipalities). You must speak to the earlier generations in regards to this project, as I think most people in their 30s and younger would now support such a project. Yes, we would have lost some of our historic sites (caves & state parks) and that would be a shame, however, the increase in the local economy due to the new attraction would have been crazy. The problem is too much money from the greater St. Louis area was already invested at the Lake of the Ozarks and this is what really shut the project down, as the Lake of the Ozarks would have went bust due to the closer proximity of the Meramec Basin.

Anywho...not extactly what I intended to get into with the topic of this thread, but interesting conversation none the less!

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if you ask anyone who has actually been on a river if they want to bury it under 100ft of water everyone will say no. Lakes are pretty, but nowhere near as pretty as the land they cover up.

if you ask anyone who has actually been on a river if they want to bury it under 100ft of water everyone will say no. Lakes are pretty, but nowhere near as pretty as the land they cover up.

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I have to disagree here (especially on this instance). While the land is beautiful and so is the river, there are PLENTY of local rivers here within a short drive, plus the river that would be below the dam. Also, the local river that would have been affected by this project is so shallow at times in certain places that even a canoe has to be picked up and walked distances late in the summer. A lake would have provided a normal flow of water, plus hydroelectricity and large tourism dollars. It was all about the money already invested in other venues close by that kept it from happening. Now you ask me the same thing about the Gasconade, Osage, Current, or Black rivers and I will agree 100% that they are too perfect to be dammed up. The Meramec though needs a good dredge or pool it up!

Why would anyone want to turn a nice river into a lake? I don't see how it would help tourism any. "Lets go see the hydro electric plant" :roll:
There are plenty of rivers around but some people like parts of river. Wouldn't you be mad if someone ups and says you can't go here anymore because we're putting in a dam or some other reason. Good chance we'll be dealing with this on the Current river due to the NPS Management Plan. You can't go here because the canoe bring in more revinue then the boaters (more to it then that,but). Sorry if I'm ranting and I don't meen any hard feeling by it, it just upsets me to here some say something like it just one river there's plenty of other.

Lil' blue,
I think you are missunderstanding what I am saying. In the event that the Meramec Basin Project had succeeded EVERYONE would be able to boat, fish, etc. on the lake. The Meramec river would still exist above and below said lake and really would not be much difference of a drive than where we go to put in on the river right now. I think only people who truely run the Meramec will have an understanding to what I am saying about this particualr instance. The Meramec has become so lodged with gravel and rocks/boulders and trees over the years that there are times of the year that the river is flat useless (I dont' care how light/small/shallow your boat is). If you don't see how it would help tourism then you must not frequent the Lake of the Ozarks to see how a place where there was absolutely NOTHING turned into MAJOR revenue and tourism. With the close proximity to the interstate, the Meramec River Basin project would have been a slam dunk. The other issue we face (as you do) is the floater traffic. Sometimes the river can get so chalked full of canoes, rafts, and anything else that can be rigged up to float and hold beer, that haivng a boat is USELESS and forget fishing! Anyway, I am not an advocate for daming up the beautiful rivers & streams in Missouri so lets not paint that picture, I do see that this particular project and instance was an exception to the status quo. Anywho...onward ho!

Yeah I see your point with bringing in people now. I'm just not a lake guy, wouldn't own a boat if that's where I had to go.
Back to the subject at hand, Spring hasn't made it yet and I figure it will bring some rain with it so I doubt it will be too bad shallow. Could be wrong though. The Current was in real good shape during the polar bear run.

Just curious, but if this Maramec River Basin thing had passed, what would have happened to Maramec Springs? I think I understand what you are talking about when you say it would affect the boatable part of the river much, just the super shallow section. Maramec Springs would be at the upper end of this section right?

As for water patrol at the poker run, they haven't caused any trouble the two years I have went. I see him there every year though but everybody has been pretty civil and just had a great time so there wasn't any need for action on his part. You can't miss him either because he is running around in a really nice River Pro. :wink:

Outside of early spring, and very late fall....I stay away from Lake of the Ozarks. I can't stand that much water traffic. Then again....this really has nothing to do with the Original Post so never mind.

Seth said:

Just curious, but if this Maramec River Basin thing had passed, what would have happened to Maramec Springs?

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It would not have reached that far upstream.

405z06 - GREAT image you posted there. That should clear up a lot of questions.

Seth - Yes, as the image there posted shows, Meramec Springs would have certainly been saved and still a great trout fishing attraction. The biggest loss in my opinion would be Onadoga Cave and the Park there in Leasburg. Other than that, folks who enjoy the river and fishing it would still have from the State Park at 185 Bridge all the way down...plus this part of the river would most certianly have become a bit less shallow as the flow of water would now be regulated and constant instead of soley dependent on rainfall. I have a feeling most of the canoe/raft companies would have moved down river towards the Stanton/St. Clair areas. Oh well...I don't think it will ever happen in my lifetime, there has been talk of re-addressing the issue and putting it up for vote, but I still think there is too much money at the Ozarks at stake that it would never make it that far. We will just keep enjoying our beautiful little river until it gets so wide and filled up with gravel that we can drive our trucks down it instead of our boats :lol: