Decided to go finesse

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senkosam
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Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 13 Aug 2019, 11:29

I've used bass tackle for most of my life but decided to go ultra light to catch all species. Jig head max weight rarely exceeds 1/16 oz and most lures used are soft plastic that are less than 3" in length. Nice is being able to pour my own lures or modify many of the soft plastic lures already owned (hybrids). I've caught panfish and bass smaller than 3" all the way up to 7.5 lb catfish and 3 lb bass. I rarely catch less than 30 fish per outing and in late spring the number was over 60. Here are a few examples:
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Kut Tail worm on a 1/32 jig with #2 hook:
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This little guy must have really been hungry:
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Clear stubby tail:
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Wacky rigged hybrid with stubby tails:
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Xtremeboats
-CN-
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by -CN- » 10 Sep 2019, 16:32

This is good fishing!

I like using a drop shot for panfish. A No. 4 hook with a 1/8 oz sinker and use half of a senko, or sometimes a Gulp! minnow or other smaller thin plastic worm, wacky rigged. Bluegill, crappie, and bass in abundance with this rig. Had northern bite me off fishing this way too.

JNG
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by JNG » 15 Sep 2019, 15:47

I prefer finesse/life like presentations. Produce better for me than swimbaits or other giant sized lures.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 16 Sep 2019, 11:38

JNG wrote:
15 Sep 2019, 15:47
I prefer finesse/life like presentations. Produce better for me than swimbaits or other giant sized lures.
I have to agree. Been a while since I targeted pan fish with light tackle. Last time was maybe 4 years ago and I knocked them dead using tiny trout magnet jigs. Many moons ago when I used to target large mouth bass, it was rubber worms fished slowly that were hands down most productive. At the time we wouldn't have known that it was called a Texas rig. There is a learning curve. It is hard to explain the method to someone new but once it works a couple of times it is like a light bulb goes off and it becomes second nature. This was long before drop shot or wacky rigs were part of the vocabulary. haha.
Have Rod - Will Fish

senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 16 Sep 2019, 20:47

Not so sure about lifelike as a reason fish bite lures. Many lures look mechanical in action and get bit anyway. Guess it's in the eye of the beholder what's considered natural and lifelike.

When I design soft plastic lures, I'm strictly after lure actions that irritate fish to strike. Some would say fish bite to eat whatever they strike; I say lures composed of plastic, wood, wire, rubber/ silicone, paint, metal, bronze and other unnatural materials are an unknown to fish and yet they strike anyway.

Not all crankbaits catch fish yet many move in a similar way depending on design, but design matters - ALWAYS ! Fish may be stupid but they are extremely sensitive and aware. I go from there and search for various lure actions fish are more than likely to attack if for no other reasons than - why not? and trespassers not welcome - especially those that flaunt their stuff !

If believing something increases your chances of catching fish, by all means develop a system based on those beliefs of what lures to use and when. The above is my system.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 17 Sep 2019, 19:58

"Not so sure about lifelike as a reason fish bite lures."

Maybe not, but could be a big reason fisherman buy them! Haha

Actually, I think something that seems like prey or wounded prey is going to be effective.
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senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 17 Sep 2019, 20:11

LDUBS wrote:
17 Sep 2019, 19:58
"Not so sure about lifelike as a reason fish bite lures."

Maybe not, but could be a big reason fisherman buy them! Haha

Actually, I think something that seems like prey or wounded prey is going to be effective.
As a one who tinkers with soft plastic designs and catches fish with many, I'd have to say that fish can't know what a lure represents. In other words, they are incapable of even guessing what a lure supposedly imitates. One thing anglers want to believe is that lures are like duck decoys - animal look alikes that fool them into believing something is a real animal and attract them because of it. Maybe so, but how to prove it is the problem. Much easier to know what lure actions catch the most fish coupled with size and shape. The rest is up to the angler using the lure the best way.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 18 Sep 2019, 00:36

I don't know. I think I might disagree. I mean, sure the fish isn't having a conscience thought process like "Gee, does that look like a shad minnow over there?". Instead, through action, noise, scent, vibration, color or a combination of those things the lure is representing something that is triggering the instinct to strike at the lure. Or, maybe another way to think about it. If the instinct to chase after a food source wasn't strong fish wouldn't even exist. A lure has to represent something that is triggering that instinct, meaning prey and/or something threatening, or something violating territory.
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senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 18 Sep 2019, 05:35

through action, noise, scent, vibration, color or a combination of those things the lure is representing something that is triggering the instinct to strike at the lure.
A bird is not a part of it's diet yet bass will attack them on the surface or any mammal swimming near it.
If the instinct to chase after a food source wasn't strong fish wouldn't even exist.

All this means is that fish eat to survive. The fact that they strike live animals and semi-animate objects (lures) is to me apples and oranges. The first one they instinctively know what it is; the second not so much but strike it anyway - dumb animal that it is.
Animals in general strike out for many reasons - defense being one of them and as you say:
triggering that instinct, meaning prey and/or something threatening, or something violating territory.
If you focus on lures violating territory, unlike prey animals that don't violate territory, you have to wonder what it is about a lure that generates such aggression. My belief is that feeding has nothing to do with it nor defense nor anger nor anything else attributed to mammals. Looking at it another way, fish aren't fooled but simply provoked.

Most lures don't look or move naturally so that can't be it. Tell me how these lures do:
* spinnerbait with it's strobe-like brightly flashing blade
* in-line spinners with revolving blade and steady flash
* Helin's Flat Fish that wobbles like crazy from side to side
* Chatterbait that wobbles like crazy from side to side
* broad bill, deep dive crankbait that wobbles like crazy from side to side
* steady retrieved buzzbait that plop plops without pause on the surface
* Zara Spook - a cigar shape that zigzags with its exposed giant treble hooks ( that instinct should tell a fish to avoid)
* Senko - another cigar shape that basically falls flat and horizontal ( not much natural action there)
* skirted jig and pork rind trailer - the combination looks nor moves like nothing a fish has ever seen or will see as long as it lives.

None of the above examples can be said to represent any prey animal accept by humans that insist they do by a big stretch of the imagination - the one thing fish don't possess. What fish do have though are senses that can be overloaded to the point of making a fish strike - an animal that is an energy conservative to the max. How they make fish strike is key and unique to lure types. Anglers should concentrate on aggression triggers that are unique to the best lures and absent in lures that are generally in clearance bins.

Again JMO but one that continues to serve me and others.
Last edited by senkosam on 20 Sep 2019, 21:49, edited 1 time in total.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 19 Sep 2019, 18:04

Interesting discussion.

"A bird is not a part of it's diet yet bass will attack them on the surface. . . ."


But birds are part of its diet. Same for swimming rodents, snakes, etc.

"The first one [live prey] they instinctively know what it is; the second [artificial] not so much but strike it anyway - dumb animal that it is."
"Most lures don't look or move naturally so that can't be it. Tell me how these lures do:"


Because the lure mimics natural prey or, even better wounded bait fish, which trigger the instinct. Look at a healthy minnow dart around compared to a wounded one wobbling around. That is what all of those wobbling/vibrating/buzzing lures mimic. Fish don't have to "guess" what it is because it triggers the same instincts as a natural meal, or threat. And remember, fish have a sense (lateral lines) that is outside of human experience when it comes to sensing vibrations or movement through water.

Except, I have to admit I have no idea about the Senko. I've never used that rig and kind of scratch my head how it can work so well as it must otherwise it wouldn't be so popular.

All my (unscientific) opinion, of course.
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senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 19 Sep 2019, 22:09

Here's to a great imagination and I'll leave it at that.

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richg99
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by richg99 » 20 Sep 2019, 09:24

Wait...don't stop there. I want to see one of the "aggravating" lures.

This Summer I've gone from only occasional catches....to catching more than usual (July)..back to only occasional catches.

Just above, I posted an article gleaned from another fishing site (BBC). The article contends that fish DO have memories (especially of bad experiences with lures) and they avoid those same baits that worked well for a while.

Since I am on my last weeks here on Lake WoeBeGone-Dartmoor, I'd like to figure out how to motivate the bass that I KNOW ARE THERE, into biting.

Any and all help appreciated. Thanks....

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 20 Sep 2019, 10:15

senkosam wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 22:09
Here's to a great imagination and I'll leave it at that.

??? I guess you got me with that one. :roll:
Have Rod - Will Fish

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richg99
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by richg99 » 20 Sep 2019, 10:20

You know, all of my fishing life, I used to switch lures, over and over, until I found something that they liked.

I did NOT, however, switch techniques or sizes so much.

I have so much to learn, and so little time to learn it.

senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 20 Sep 2019, 10:31

Rich, I've caught many fish with holes in their mouths from being caught before regardless of the lure. Fish memory if you search on-line is short term and especially within months they forget (if they ever remembered being caught at all) will bite lures that demonstrate aggravation triggers.

Refer to the photos in the original post as explained below.

Okay, here are examples (before I go fishing in the next hour):
Note the Kut Tail worm rigged on the light jig (above photo). The action is a slither & dart that many fish strike with glee! Whether it represents a food item - I could care less! All I know is that I've caught many species of fish with that particular design/ action in many waters. The plastic is made from a special mix of who knows what. I haven't figured out what, but it definitely is a factor and the sam mix used in Gary Y's Senko - another genius design.
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The senko has a horizontal drop that drops at certain speed - very important for the body rotating and tip flutter all the way to the bottom. That action accounts for big strikes from different species. What I've done is make a mini-stick design that does the same exact thing: body wobble and tip flutter when rigged on a light ball head jig. What's more is that I can retrieve the lure horizontally to the bottom creating a vibrating lure that's attacked using a slow-medium fast retrieve. (photo of stick with clear tails)
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The same design (photo) shows one clear plastic stubby tail attached to a small black body (clear plastics work as well as any color for a reason). It's trigger is a wobble from side to side when twitched with the top tip and then paused. One of my best designs!
Even works well with a fatter stubby tail which fish clobber!:
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The claw grub (made from the parts of two lures) has subtle flapping tips that catches anything that swims:
ImageImage

The crankbait shown gets slammed by panfish and bass when trolled:
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The above Risto Rap (discontinued by Rapala) has a special tight vibration fish attack better than most crankbaits. This means the fish have to chase the lure at whatever depth they're at - which really aren't prone to doing most of the time!

The prong tail and flat tail grubs (top photo) demonstrate a tiny quiver when fish are less than irritable. They can catch fish under a float when there's a slight chop on the water. I've used them ice fishing and caught fish.

Take the Beetle Spin - please! The combination of the flashing blade causes a soft plastic vibration that really pisses fish off! The subtle flapping of the curly tail does the rest (though other tailless designs also work).
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This carp attacked a Crappie Magnet double tail grub as do all species when rigged on a light ball head jig (always unpainted).
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The tiny tails quiver with the least motion.

Okay, now you've got an idea why certain lures catch fish and most times better than thousands of similar lures. You must have excellent lures in your tackle box that excel. Most important is to watch them on one or more retrieve types and note their action.
That is the key to choosing what works vs what doesn't! .. meaning, that which aggravates fish most in the longest or shortest period of time depending on the bite and location type.

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