Rookie's first project- 1648 jon

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canis521 said:
What is it about the carpet work you found you hated?
The fact that no power tools are involved. :shock: :lol: :lol:

No, not really - no power tools are involved in electrical work, and I do like that. There are a couple things I hate about it. First of all, and most importantly, was the gluing. If it could be stapled, I would have liked it better, but there were no wrapping capabilities, and no stapling. Everything had to be measured precisely, and trimmed perfectly before it was attached in any way. Not to mention, the glue was a total pain. On a porch or something with wide space, it would not have been a problem at all, but the spaces are just real small, with tight radiuses. The biggest mistake I made was carpeting inside the hatches. I should have used something else in them, because the deck carpeting wasn't that bad, and the lids have an easier method - I just didn't employ it.
 
I am not too excited about working withe carpet either. Hydroturf sounds like great stuff with the caveat that once the adhesive is in place there isnt much to correct errors- and carpet is a bit cheaper.

The ribs on my boat are 12" on center so I will factor that for thickness. I have stainless steel sheets at work that would be plenty to finish this, what are the thoughts on using stainless? Is weight a factor? Not sure the difference. The good thing is they are paid for.

Every time I look at this thing I think of something different. Hopefully I get it mostly right the first time.

I am thinking of removing the built out portion of the inside of the hull- it looks like its only function is to attach the rod holder, and the controller near the console.
Console.JPG
Rod holders.JPG

I would need to drill out the rivets that go through the hull; what is the best way to fill these holes? And prep for painting?

Do you think this would push the console to close to the controller (to the right, thinking my shoulder may be hitting the controller)?

Thanks once again.
 
canis521 said:
I would need to drill out the rivets that go through the hull; what is the best way to fill these holes? And prep for painting?
More rivets. You can get them at Grainger, or grainger.com, as well as aircraftspruce.com. If you have access to an air chisel, buy a rivet tip for it. They are on ebay all the time. On one side, you hit it with the air chisel, and on the other, you get a friend to hold a steel chunk, or a hand sledge up against the back of the rivet. Or, use a hand sledge or large ball peen hammer on both sides (one holding, one hitting). We put about 30 rivets into holes in my hull where I drilled them out to pull out side panels.
 
Deno- I am curious on your progress, keep us updated.

I looked at the wiring today- I think it may be best to start over.

Wiring Nest.JPG
Fusebox.JPG
Switches.JPG

I am not sure if I want to keep the console as is or not. I see some on the forum have standing consloles, any feedback on those would be appreciated. I also need to replace the housing for the steering cable, I assume I should be able to get that at any boat supply place.

Slow but steady progress.
 
I would replace the fuses with circuit breakers.If you pop a fuse,you may not have one handy and circuit breakers can be reset.Another thing I would do is use GM style weather pack wiring connectors.The ones with the little bellows on them.Just some ideas I had for a future project,maybe they'll work for you.
 
Okay I got all the wiring cleared out. What is the best (easiest) way to start the wiring. Again I am pretty illiterate when it come to wiring. Does anyone know of a web site that will give step by step instructions for wiring the boat.

What I am looking to wire would be (let me know if I am missing anything or any other ideas):
1) electric start
2) navigation lights
3) there are 2 courtesy lights- one on the side of the console and one on the bow directed toward the casting deck
4) fish finder
5) 12vdc plugs- one on bow, 2 at console- for handheld GPS, dog collar chargers, coffee maker (just kiddin')
6) bilge
7) wire for bow lights- I don't have the lights yet
8) I forgot to mention the speedometer and tach- I suppose they are there might as well use them.
9) and at least wire for trolling motor (it did come with one that had a bent shaft- can this be replaced- but only 25# thrust, which I would think is undersized for this boat)

I currently have one battery, would a second be needed?

Any help with materials needed would be appreciated also.

Thanks again everyone.
 
What about trolling motors?I would do 1 battery just for engine and it's instruments,and 1 battery for everything else.If you have a trolling motor,I would add an extra battery to extend your run time.
 
I think I will go with an extra battery. I think I am slowly starting to understand the wiring- of course I haven't actually started it yet. It really is making me feel kinda stupid. Probably a lot easier than I am making it seem.

I am going to run to Cabelas this afternoon and try to get what I need. Hopefully there will be someone knowledgeable enough to walk me through this.
 
12V wiring isn't to difficult on a boat.Just keep it simple and use circuit breakers rated for amps the equipment requires.Size your wire to the amount of amps each piece of equipment needs.Any questions we can help.If you have manuals for your equipment,they should have a wiring diagram, or at least a description of what is needed to protect the equipment.
 
Okay so I am back from Cabelas. According to them I can get away with one battery- if I understand I will need another (or two) if I put in a trolling motor.

I picked up a fused 6 switch panel- https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?id=0001616&navCount=1&parentId=cat21310&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=&parentType=index&indexId=cat21310&rid=true
Per suggestions the Johnny Ray Battery Terminal connectors- https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0001135010225a&navCount=3&podId=0001135&parentId=cat21310&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat21310&hasJS=true

And this to replace an existing badly corroded one- https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0001502012343a&navCount=2&podId=0001502&parentId=cat600053&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat600053&hasJS=true

So if I understand this correctly, going with one deep cycle battery:

I will connect the positive and negative from the outboard to the corresponding terminals. For the instruments and controller I will run the postive lead with a fuse for each (should have picked up the fuse box while I was there) to the instrument and then the negative back to the negative terminal on the battery.

Then I will attatch the Johnny Ray battery terminal connector to the corresponding terminals and run one wire from the positive terminal to the 6 switch panel. From each switch I will run a wire to each accessory I want to power (and according to the guy at Cabelas I can run all 3 of the 12v plugs through one switch), then take each negative from each accessory and run them back to the negative Johnny Ray battery terminal connector. And that should do it....right?

If I do it this way (pending I actually have this correct) what gauge wire should I use for each step?

The other option is to use 2 batteries. My understanding here is to use the exisiting deep cycle to power all accessories, and buy a regular 12 v battery for a starting battery. Then run outboard, all instruments and the controller from this battery. I was told the alternator in my Mercury 35hp would charge this battery. Is this really correct?

Is it my understanding that grounding is not needed? That doesn't make any sense to me. Please give me feedback.
 
I've read your post a few times...still not sure if I understand what you want but here we go.
First for your instruments and controller...are you using the switch panel for this?If not,I can see putting in a fuse and doing it that way but whats the switch panel for,just the 12V plugs?
On the 12V plugs,using one switch...might be possible depending on what your running on the 12V plugs(s) at the time.Not sure what your using them for so it's kinda hard to say what size amps and wire size.If you put to big of a fuse(breaker)it might not blow(trip)in time to save whatever your using.
Your outboards alternator doesn't put out enough to charge your battery,especially if your running alot of stuff off the battery.If you had one starting battery it might keep it charged but it is a good thing to charge it manually after every use.Does your outboard have a pull cord?
Sorry,if I misunderstood your post...
On 12V dc only pos neg is needed....Some boats use ground(neg)strips but it's not needed here.It's just something like your Johnny Ray thing with all your connections going to one point.
 
Thanks for your help... I think I can clear things up a bit.

The switches will be run off the deep cycle battery and used for:

*navigation lights
*courtesy lights
*bilge pump
*12vdc plugs- I will use these for my handheld GPS, spotlight, charge dog collars,charge cell phone?,etc.
*this will leave 2 open switches for future use

I think I will buy a second battery for a starting battery- and this should NOT be a deep cycle, correct? Off of the starting battery I plan to run the instruments and the controller- with a fuse box between the postive terminal and the components.
 
When I owned my Tracker, w/50hp Merc on the back, both of my batteries, including the starting batt, were deep cycle. Both batteries I have on my current rig (no gas motor on this one) are also deep cycle.
 
I was told (or read) somewhere that a deepcycle does not have the cranking amps that a regular battery has, but it obviously will work.

I forgot to answer Zum- there is not a pull cord on my outboard.
 
Here's a good explanation by Capt. Ahab back in April. There's also a link in his post about batteries:

I woudl not waste the time with the lawn tractor battery - you can run this with any car type battery (Starting Battery or "SLI" Starting, Lighting, Ignition) just fine, but a deep cycle marine battery will always work better, especially if you might run a trolling motor or pump in the future. Get a deep cycle


Found this that answers lots of battery questions:

https://marine-electronics.net/techarticle/battery_faq/b_faq.htm#7.7

Remember, deep cycle batteries will not have as many cranking amps Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA" True deep cycle batteries generally are not rated this way.


NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION

Mercury recommends that you use 465 Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) or 350 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) to start their 2 -stroke engines less then 75 hp. For a 15 hp engine you can go less then that
 
*courtesy lights...no problem
*bilge pump...no problem,if you just want to turn it on manually
...for an auto bilge(float)I think you need a different switch(on/auto)
*12vdc plugs...might work but if you plan on running the GPS,spot light
and charging dog collar at the same time,you will probably
need a high amp breaker.If something goes wrong and the
breaker doesn't trip untill the higher amperage,you run the
risk of ruining your GPS because it is of a lower amperage if
used by itself(hope that makes sence)
*navagation lights...they will work but if you want only the anchor light
to come on(stern)you will have to take out your bow light or
use a different type switch(DPDT)or you could wire the stern
light to another switch,or maybe where your at you don't need
an anchor light.
Starting batteries are better for starting..short bursts of power consumption
deep cycle hold the amps longer
I'm not a electrician,don't hold what I say as against me:)I pretty sure it's correct...plus I gotta go take the boy to hockey practice
 
A few questions I hope to get some help on.

First, how do I disconnect the steering cable so I can completely remove the console? I have it disconnected from the motor but when I took apart the part under the steering wheel I had no idea what I was doing. Before getting a bit frustrated I thought I should ask.

When I pull the plate there is a pulley that the cable wraps around, do I need to pull that cable and if so how?
Wiring Nest.JPG

Sorry not a great picture, the plate is on the right side under all the wiring.

The cable housing is cracked pretty bad so I would like to replace that- am I better off getting a whole new (or used) steering cable kit?

On a related thought. Is it possible to convert an outboard to a tiller system? Just a thought, it would free up a fair amount of space not having the console (as was mentioned earlier).

I am ready to start painting (got the paint from lockstockbarrell.com today), just need to get to the bottom to get it prepped and painted.
 
On the lower portion of this link, you'll find a chart that will provide you with wire size per amp draw:

https://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm

Also "Marine" batteries aren't really deep cycle or "regular" starting batteries, they're a cross between the two, so you get the best of both worlds so to speak. I'd use a marine battery for your starting battery, but wouldn't run out & buy a new one of you have something that will work in the meanwhile.

If it were me, I'd run 1-larger feed to a fuse block at the console, and feed out of the fuseblock to your controls (switch panel). This will help eliminate a bunch of smaller wiring, which will be helpful if you ever have problems. Be sure you mark all your wiring, and color coding it would be even better (meaning don't run all your circuits in all 1 color, and certainly not both + & - in similar colors). Running all your -'s in 1 color is fine, it easily identifies them no matter where they are in the boat. Record (on paper) what colors feed what circuit, and make a copy, keep 1 on the boat & the other with your records.

ST
 
hey k9 nice too see you found this place alright. Ill give ya a tip on the conversion of a console drive too tiller drive PRICE IT OUT that stuff is spendy or so ive been told by the man i traded my console moter too for a tiller version. but you are right it does free up a ton of space since you already said you need too replace the steer cable if it becomes cost prohibitive too turn your console too a tiller you may look at moving that console all the way rear ward so your rear deck shelf area becomes a seat hope thats clear.
Another thing too consider is how your dog will get in and out im puting my blind on this weekend and found im gonna need too build a shelf for my dog so she dont bottom out climbing in off the ladder and can still clear the blind frame.
as far as your wiring goes id scrap all that you have left and run some heavy gauge wire too the front and back and run a hot and negative stud front and rear in a water proof outdoor plug in panel and wire the componants off of those studs with circuit breakers inline. also what ever you do do not ground too your hull run ground wires too each componant
also why are you worried about charging a shock collar during a trip mine ussually last 3 or 4 days without even starting too trip the low battery light
main thing with a duck boat is keep it simple if you cant get repair parts at napa, home depot or walmart id keep it off your boat those big trips too no-wheresville population you, your pup, and a million ducks suck when you have too contimplate risking it all with no bilge pump or nav lights or sumthin couse the cabelas super widget broke and they are far away or not open till 9
hit me with an email if ya have any questions
Scott Gentry (duckboats.net )
 

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