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BassAddict

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Yet another move closer to Ahab!!!
So My neighbors computer got zapped the other night when lightning hit the phone line that is connected to there house. I have an old dell 8200 here collecting dust so im formatting/cleaning it up for them, my question is: is it advisable to try to salvage data from their old machine by installing their hard drive in the 8200 or am I running the risk zapping this machine too?
 
Just plug their drive into your computer and set it as SLAVE. If the drive works, you should be able to copy any data to the other drive. You won't hurt anything.
 
What Anthony said.

The strike probably only fried the motherboard &/or power supply, so the HD should be OK. Connecting it as a slave or via an external cable or enclosure will not put the other drive at risk since the charge never got to the unit and the HD wouldn't "hold" that charge even if it did.

Tell your neighbor about the value of surge protectors. $10-$100 investment saves $500-$5,000 of electronics gear.
 
DocWatson said:
Tell your neighbor about the value of surge protectors. $10-$100 investment saves $500-$5,000 of electronics gear.

Make sure you get one that specifically says it guards against lightning strikes. I had a computer back in 1996 that was fried by a lightning strike that was plugged into a surge suppressor and was not even turned on at the time. The surge suppressor company told me that they are good for small surges from the electric company, not lightning strikes.
 
KMixson said:
I had a computer back in 1996 that was fried by a lightning strike that was plugged into a surge suppressor and was not even turned on at the time. The surge suppressor company told me that they are good for small surges from the electric company, not lightning strikes.
Direct strikes without damage even to the protector are normal. But if you bought protectors with names such as APC, Belkin, Panamax, Tripplite, and Monster Cable, then your protectors do not even claim protection in their numeric specs. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. How do those hundreds of joules inside a protector makes 'hundreds of thousands of joules' surges just disappear? They don't. So their numeric specs do not even claim protection. They sell become hearsay routinely replaces reason. Because junk science is alive and well.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either the 'whole house' protector makes that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. Or you have no protection – as the damaged computer demonstrates. Either energy harmlessly dissipates in earth. Or energy is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Powered on or off. It is still a destructive path to earth. Those are your choices.

Either spend about $1 per protected appliance for the effective (and earthed) solution . Or you spend $25 or $150 for power strip protectors that do not even claim surge protection. Your choice.

A lightning strike to utility wires down the street is a direct strike to household appliances. An effective protector earths direct lightning strikes and remains functional. Effective protection means nobody even knew a surge existed. Means energy is not inside a house. In every case, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Power strip protectors are not earthed. Do not even claim protection in numeric specifications.

Minimally sized ‘whole house’ protector starts at 50,000 amps. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Only more responsible companies provide these effective solutions. A $7 protector circuit sells under Belkin and Monster Cable names for $40 and $150. Power strip protectors are profit centers; not surge protection.

KMixon discusses damage because a plug-in protector did exactly what all plug-in protectors claim to accomplish. It has no connection to earth.

Only more responsible companies sell ‘whole house’ protectors. Names that any ‘guy’ would know: Siemens, Square D, General Electric, Intermatic, and Leviton are but a few. The effective Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Loews and Home Depot for less than $50.

Direct lightning strikes are 20,000 amps. A protector must conduct even direct lightning strikes harmlessly to earth. The protector not damaged. So effective ‘whole house’ protectors start at 50,000 amps. A direct lightning strike to utility wires down the street is either a direct lightning strike to household appliances; OR is made completely irrelevant by earthing that only a ‘whole house’ protector connects to.

Surges seek earth ground. Either energy is harmlessly earthed. Or that energy is inside a building hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Once inside, nothing can stop the hunt. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. The informed homeowner installs only one ‘whole house’ protector. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - as your damaged computer demonstrated.
 
ACarbone624 said:
Just plug their drive into your computer and set it as SLAVE. If the drive works, you should be able to copy any data to the other drive. You won't hurt anything.

What Ant said......
 
westom said:
KMixson said:
I had a computer back in 1996 that was fried by a lightning strike that was plugged into a surge suppressor and was not even turned on at the time. The surge suppressor company told me that they are good for small surges from the electric company, not lightning strikes.
Direct strikes without damage even to the protector are normal. But if you bought protectors with names such as APC, Belkin, Panamax, Tripplite, and Monster Cable, then your protectors do not even claim protection in their numeric specs. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. How do those hundreds of joules inside a protector makes 'hundreds of thousands of joules' surges just disappear? They don't. So their numeric specs do not even claim protection. They sell become hearsay routinely replaces reason. Because junk science is alive and well.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either the 'whole house' protector makes that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. Or you have no protection – as the damaged computer demonstrates. Either energy harmlessly dissipates in earth. Or energy is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Powered on or off. It is still a destructive path to earth. Those are your choices.

Either spend about $1 per protected appliance for the effective (and earthed) solution . Or you spend $25 or $150 for power strip protectors that do not even claim surge protection. Your choice.

A lightning strike to utility wires down the street is a direct strike to household appliances. An effective protector earths direct lightning strikes and remains functional. Effective protection means nobody even knew a surge existed. Means energy is not inside a house. In every case, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Power strip protectors are not earthed. Do not even claim protection in numeric specifications.

Minimally sized ‘whole house’ protector starts at 50,000 amps. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Only more responsible companies provide these effective solutions. A $7 protector circuit sells under Belkin and Monster Cable names for $40 and $150. Power strip protectors are profit centers; not surge protection.

KMixon discusses damage because a plug-in protector did exactly what all plug-in protectors claim to accomplish. It has no connection to earth.

Only more responsible companies sell ‘whole house’ protectors. Names that any ‘guy’ would know: Siemens, Square D, General Electric, Intermatic, and Leviton are but a few. The effective Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Loews and Home Depot for less than $50.

Direct lightning strikes are 20,000 amps. A protector must conduct even direct lightning strikes harmlessly to earth. The protector not damaged. So effective ‘whole house’ protectors start at 50,000 amps. A direct lightning strike to utility wires down the street is either a direct lightning strike to household appliances; OR is made completely irrelevant by earthing that only a ‘whole house’ protector connects to.

Surges seek earth ground. Either energy is harmlessly earthed. Or that energy is inside a building hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Once inside, nothing can stop the hunt. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. The informed homeowner installs only one ‘whole house’ protector. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - as your damaged computer demonstrated.
Sound advice, but most folks are not going to rewire their home when they buy a PC or a big, flatscreen TV. People aren't wired that way. :wink:

I use an APC Uninterrupted Power Supply for surge protection and have no complaints. One on each TV and one on the PC.

I don't expect any warranty claims to be honored, but know that the incoming power to my condo building from the electric company is grounded at the main box (thick, single, unsheathed copper wire from main circuit breaker box to a clamped connection on a rod driven in the ground). There's also a similar wire from my inside circuitry, connected to the water line where it enters the house in the basement. Most newer houses are "grounded" in this way by code. Unless you have a lightening rod and/or whole house surge suppressor installed on your house, that's about as well grounded as you can get. A good homeowner's policy can also help ease the pain. 8)

BTW - Are you an electrician ?? :wink:
 
DocWatson said:
Sound advice, but most folks are not going to rewire their home when they buy a PC or a big, flatscreen TV.
I use an APC Uninterrupted Power Supply for surge protection and have no complaints. One on each TV and one on the PC.
Expanding on what was posted mean no rewiring inside a house. Numbers make that clear.
Either the 'whole house' protector makes that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. Or you have no protection – as the damaged computer demonstrates. Either energy harmlessly dissipates in earth. Or energy is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances.
Only ground that matters is 'less than 10 feet' to earth. Same solution effective on a 2009 home is just as effective on a 1930 wired home. No rewiring necessary. Only relevant wiring is a 'less then 10 foot' bare copper wire from breaker box to earth.

If every wire in every cable is earthed, then you have no electric power. Without a 'whole house' protector, those other wires are not earthed – for 2009 homes and 1930 homes. Only way to ground those other AC electric wires is a 'whole house' protector. A device necessary to also protect that APC from the typically destructive surge.

BTW, all telephone wires are already protected. That ‘whole house’ protector has always been required by regulations. But again, it too is only as effective as the earth ground that only a homeowner installs.

APC does not claim surge protection. Read their specs. 1) No protection numbers means ineffective protection. But then 2) where is the 'less than 10 foot' connection from the APC to earth ground? Just another reason why you know the APC is not protecting from typically destructive surges. Just another reason why you know the APC does not even claim protection. 3) that APC can sometimes make damage easier to any nearby appliance as an IEEE brochure demonstrates. And 4) view the joules number for that UPS. Hundreds of joules is near zero protection. But large enough to promote a myth: 100% protection.

A typical electrician does not know how electricity works. Only knows how things must be installed to meet human safety codes. Learning all those rules takes years. Only the fewer and better electricians understand why one ‘whole house’ protector is critical. Even fewer understand electricity to know why that ground wire must meet other conditions. Ie. no sharp bends, no splices, not inside metallic conduit, separated from other wires, and as short as possible. For example, your ground wire might go up over the foundation and down to earth. Meets post 1990 code AND is insufficient for surge protection. Wire too long. Sharp wire bends over the foundation. Wire bundled with other wires above the breaker box. That ground wire is best through the foundation and down to be separated from other wires, shorter, no sharp bends, etc.

Only fewer and better electricians understand this. Most engineers (especially radio engineers) would understand why those additional requirements are critical.

Bottom line: APC provides no numbers that claims that protection. The effective protector must be short (ie ‘less than 10 feet’) to single point earth ground. Rated for 50,000+ amps (which means a plug-in protector starts at 150,000 amps). The effective solution costs about $1 per protected appliance. How much was that APC that does not even claim protection?

Protection is always and only about where energy dissipates. The protector is only as effective as its earth ground – which that APC (a profit center) does not have and will not discuss.
 
DocWatson said:
The thread has moved off the topic of the original poster's question and the discussion has become irrelevant


Not at all irrelevant, in fact id love to know this: although the computer and everything else connected to it was on a surge protector why did only certain things get zapped. For example the cpu and dsl modem got zapped (on surge protector) while the speakers, monitor and printer (on same surge protector) were fine? Also her TV (off protector) got zapped while her DVD player (off protector in same outlet) was fine.

Also about the HD installation which went fine but now the computer runs like crap, Should I have installed another IDE card. :-k
 
BassAddict said:
although the computer and everything else connected to it was on a surge protector why did only certain things get zapped. For example the cpu and dsl modem got zapped (on surge protector) while the speakers, monitor and printer (on same surge protector) were fine? Also her TV (off protector) got zapped while her DVD player (off protector in same outlet) was fine.
All appliances saw the same surge simultaneously whether connected to a protector, UPS, or directly to the wall receptacle. One reason why - even an appliance plugged into a UPS or power strip protector connects directly to the wall. Protector circuit is unchanged if unplugged from the protector and connected to the same wall receptacle. IOW protector says a surge might be provided more potentially destructive paths through any nearby appliance.

First, All appliances already contain surge protection. But some appliances have better internal protection. Just one reason why some might be damaged - and others not.

Second, for damage, a surge must have both an incoming and outgoing path. For example, a surge on a motherboard has an incoming path into memory. But no outgoing path exists. Therefore no memory damage. Speaker has an incoming path. But what would be the outgoing path to earth? Well, if speaker is on linoleum tile, then that might be an outgoing path. If on a glass table, no outgoing path – no damage.

Third, some appliances connecting the surge destructively to earth might act as a ‘whole house’ protector to protect other appliances. Some appliances making a better connection is why a plug-in protector on the TV at one end of the room may actually earth that surge through a stereo elsewhere in the room.

But in every case, protection and damage is always about the current path to earth.

Surges are constant current events. That means voltage will increase as necessary so that current will flow. Therefore anything that might try to stop a surge simple suffers a massive voltage. That same current through a wire is near zero voltage. That current times near zero voltage is near zero energy. That same current through something that tries to stop a surge cause high voltage – ie 8,000 volts in an IEEE brochure. That same current times high voltage is high energy. Also called surge damage.

So which device can withstand a higher voltage? The appliance that breaks down at a lower voltage will more likely carry that surge current.

Bottom line: you had damage because you permitted surge energy inside the building. So that surge hunted for and found the better and destructive paths to earth via appliances. Plug-in protectors would do nothing effective - and will not discuss what has been posted here to protect those profit margins.
 
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