25hp 2003 Johnson timing

Fish On Fabrications
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user 21074

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Hoping PAPPY would chime in.I got a basket case motor last year and while going over it I noticed someone had notched out the starter bracket where the timing advance stopper screw is.Never saw this before.This was done to get more adjustment for some reason.I tried to time it with the Joe Reeves timing* method and found this notch is necessary to get it timed.I tried backing screw off and put washers in the notched area to test it and couldn’t time it.Flywheel key is good and have good spark if your wondering.Could a bad power pack throw timing off if no mechanical reason was found??
 
Since know one has an answer just thought I would throw this out there.I did throw another power pack on this motor to see if that somehow affected timing and the timing results were the same,so I am still perplexed why the starter bracket where the full advance timing screw is mounted was notched out.Seen many photos of these motors and never saw this done on any?Cannot find a logical,reason for this to be done.
 
whats a joe reeves? do you need one if you have the factory service manual? is it better than a factory service manual? does it argue the factory service manual? curious as to why you wouldnt trust OMC to get the timing correct on kabillions of engines they have engineered and produced.
 
I do not have an answer for you.
The timing has to come up against a fixed stop.
Timing lights vary, many will pick up the other cylinder if the wires are close to each other.
Set TDC and check the timing at idle to verify the light is working. Will try to help from there.
 
poorthang said:
whats a joe reeves? do you need one if you have the factory service manual? is it better than a factory service manual? does it argue the factory service manual? curious as to why you wouldnt trust OMC to get the timing correct on kabillions of engines they have engineered and produced.
Click to expand...

Well, just google Joe Reeves timing method.Joe was a factory trained OMC service tech for many years and retired in the 90’s I believe so he probably had the manuals memorized.Not 100% sure if he is still among us here on earth.Also,I never said I didn’t trust a manual.I was trying to find out what May have caused someone to notch out the bracket where the timing advance stop screw is located to get correct timing or more timing adjustment or as someone suggested maybe someone mentioned to me was trying to get better performance by advancing or retarding the timing off of specs.
 
so joe reeves was a factory trained mechanic who did not trust the factory training he received? k, got it. lol then he devised a method to get better performance than the factory engineers? check. and in doing so, he created a DIY instructions that no one understood, that contained a paragraph or two about notching a bracket so that the factory timing is no longer valid. okayyyyyyy.

i reckon he works for the oposing team and is the top engine salesman?
 
Not sure I can offer any help but I'm curious about what's going on here. Any pics of the timing advance set up on this motor and the notch you are talking about?

Using a piston stop tool to find true TDC and then making new, aligned marks on the flywheel and starter assembly and testing with a timing light seems like a good baseline. Wouldn't do anything permanent, just a strip of masking tape on each with good lines that show up well with your timing light.
 
poorthang said:
so joe reeves was a factory trained mechanic who did not trust the factory training he received? k, got it. lol then he devised a method to get better performance than the factory engineers? check. and in doing so, he created a DIY instructions that no one understood, that contained a paragraph or two about notching a bracket so that the factory timing is no longer valid. okayyyyyyy.

i reckon he works for the oposing team and is the top engine salesman?
Click to expand...

No…he had nothing to do with the notching out the bracket and never suggested doing this to get correct timing!You are misunderstanding my post!I Why such a negative attitude?got this motor that someone for some unknown reason notched it out.I was just trying to determine why someone may have done this.?I have no idea if the timing method he passed along could have been something that was an OMC idea or not at some point.Never asked whom came up with it for sure.Only thing I know it was explained the timing would be retarded by 4 degrees when doing this method without actually running motor on the water and trying to time it while driving boat or maybe using a test prop which no one owns..
 
wmk0002 said:
Not sure I can offer any help but I'm curious about what's going on here. Any pics of the timing advance set up on this motor and the notch you are talking about?

Using a piston stop tool to find true TDC and then making new, aligned marks on the flywheel and starter assembly and testing with a timing light seems like a good baseline. Wouldn't do anything permanent, just a strip of masking tape on each with good lines that show up well with your timing light.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the positive feedback and suggestions.Someon else had suggested tdc check also to me which I will do.I just didn’t think since these were so simple of a timed motor I just didn’t bother to do it first.So hypothetically if the TDC of piston does not line up with TDC on flywheel mark and there are no issues with keyway and flywheel alignment,what’s left?
 
newyota said:
poorthang said:
so joe reeves was a factory trained mechanic who did not trust the factory training he received? k, got it. lol then he devised a method to get better performance than the factory engineers? check. and in doing so, he created a DIY instructions that no one understood, that contained a paragraph or two about notching a bracket so that the factory timing is no longer valid. okayyyyyyy.

i reckon he works for the oposing team and is the top engine salesman?
Click to expand...

No…he had nothing to do with the notching out the bracket and never suggested doing this to get correct timing!You are misunderstanding my post!I Why such a negative attitude?got this motor that someone for some unknown reason notched it out.I was just trying to determine why someone may have done this.?I have no idea if the timing method he passed along could have been something that was an OMC idea or not at some point.Never asked whom came up with it for sure.Only thing I know it was explained the timing would be retarded by 4 degrees when doing this method without actually running motor on the water and trying to time it while driving boat or maybe using a test prop which no one owns..
Click to expand...
just trying to understand what you were saying/asking. not negative at all, sarcasm for sure. i was trying to figure out why you didnt reference the FSM but did reference a local mechanic that seemed to have changed the isea of some to modify the timing methods designed and proven by the engineers.
or, maybe i just misread? no worries, the help is leading you down the path i was referring to (follow the manual). peace! and i hope it all works out and you go fishing soon!
 
wmk0002 said:
Not sure I can offer any help but I'm curious about what's going on here. Any pics of the timing advance set up on this motor and the notch you are talking about?

Using a piston stop tool to find true TDC and then making new, aligned marks on the flywheel and starter assembly and testing with a timing light seems like a good baseline. Wouldn't do anything permanent, just a strip of masking tape on each with good lines that show up well with your timing light.
Click to expand...

Do not have a piston stop tool but got it to top of it's travel as best I can tell and it does appear to be in time with position on flywheel.It may be that someone was trying to advance timing to gain better performance possibly.I am about ready to get it started after some other repairs that need done.
 

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