E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

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poorthang
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by poorthang »

wmk0002 wrote: 14 Jun 2022, 12:33
DaleH wrote: 13 Jun 2022, 14:23
wmk0002 wrote: 13 Jun 2022, 10:52 Last time I got some pure gas from the local station near me that sells it, pure 87 was only 10c more than 87 ethanol blend.
You must live in a Red [free] State ... we can't get non''E' fuels here in the Northeast, less on the water.
Great state of Alabama. Us, Mississippi, and Oklahoma are about as red as it gets lol. I have noticed the options declining though. It's also harder to find off-road diesel now.
hoarding? refinery shut down? lack of oil going to the U.S. refineries? if off road diesel was taxed, would there be more of it?

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wmk0002
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by wmk0002 »

poorthang wrote: 15 Jun 2022, 06:28
wmk0002 wrote: 14 Jun 2022, 12:33
DaleH wrote: 13 Jun 2022, 14:23
You must live in a Red [free] State ... we can't get non''E' fuels here in the Northeast, less on the water.
Great state of Alabama. Us, Mississippi, and Oklahoma are about as red as it gets lol. I have noticed the options declining though. It's also harder to find off-road diesel now.
hoarding? refinery shut down? lack of oil going to the U.S. refineries? if off road diesel was taxed, would there be more of it?
Not sure. Although with prices continuing to go up I wouldn't be surprised to learn people are using it in their trucks. Probably a ton of DEF deletes going on in my area as well due to that extra cost plus a looming DEF shortage. We don't have to pass emissions here so I'm pretty sure it was pretty common prior to prices exploding lol.
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poorthang
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by poorthang »

wmk0002 wrote: 16 Jun 2022, 15:52
poorthang wrote: 15 Jun 2022, 06:28
wmk0002 wrote: 14 Jun 2022, 12:33

Great state of Alabama. Us, Mississippi, and Oklahoma are about as red as it gets lol. I have noticed the options declining though. It's also harder to find off-road diesel now.
hoarding? refinery shut down? lack of oil going to the U.S. refineries? if off road diesel was taxed, would there be more of it?
Not sure. Although with prices continuing to go up I wouldn't be surprised to learn people are using it in their trucks. Probably a ton of DEF deletes going on in my area as well due to that extra cost plus a looming DEF shortage. We don't have to pass emissions here so I'm pretty sure it was pretty common prior to prices exploding lol.
hard to get around the dye they put in off road fuel. huge problem if uever checked. they WiLL see the permanent red dye it the fuel system. folks can buy it in bulk, even have tanker trailers dropped on their property and exchange for full ones. they can power all kinds of equipment, heaters, burn brush, generate electricity for off grid, etc: think cottage industry (black market fuel) here! it is not illegal to run it as long as you dont run it on the road unless it is for transporting equipment from one location to the next.

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RaisedByWolves
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by RaisedByWolves »

Ok, so inspired by this thread and my recent discovery of my own unbeknownst to me fuel issues, Ive decided to make a DIY ethanol/fuel separator.
If there's enough interest, and if Jim feels its Ok for me to show people how to play with flammable liquids Id be happy to do a writeup on this.

The base for this build will be this 3gal water jug I picked up from Wallyworld today.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/3-Gallon-Sta ... &gclsrc=ds

Im not crazy about the cap that comes with it, but I think for the time being and the cost it will give me a good start with some improvements.

As to the issue I recently uncovered it relates to my need for speed and a fancy (Or so I thought) new gas tank I picked up. Its called a dura tank and while it is durable, the damn thing leaks like a sieve.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com ... f=1&nofb=1

I have had this tank a lil over a year and while I was having motor issues, I thought it was due to abusing this motor trying different things to hop it up and gain what speed I could with the 25hp block. While not building a "Speed boat" I wanted whatever I could get out of the motor as our lake is long and when storms come up off of the river I want to get off the lake asap.

In the normal course of things I usually add some oil to the existing mix and add a couple gallons of fresh gas on the way to the lake. At the end of last year I had issues with the motor idling and a distinct lack of power and as mentioned, I just thought the engine was getting tired due to my usage and mods.

First time out this year i realized what my issue was, bad fuel! My theory was I was consistently running watery fuel due to my refill/top off method of fueling the boat before going out. Going out this year with a fresh 6gal of fuel mix I immediately noticed I had gained back all of my power and then some.

With nothing other than a carb clean and fresh fuel I picked up 4mph over what I was consistently running last year and the motor ran great. The idle was perfect and the motor ran great overall.

Then that combined with this thread got me wondering what improvements might be seen with pure gas made through phase separation of the ethanol/water in the gas Im getting.

Didnt mean to write a book, but let me know if there is any interest.
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LDUBS
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by LDUBS »

RBW, I for one would be interested in seeing your writeup.

Dumb question -- does removing the ethanol change the gasoline blend in any way that might be harmful to small engines? I think I know the answer, but it is always good to be cautious.

PS: If anyone comes up with a way to change gasoline into #2 Diesel, I would really be interested! haha.
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by MrGiggles »

RaisedByWolves wrote: 18 Jun 2022, 17:04 Ok, so inspired by this thread and my recent discovery of my own unbeknownst to me fuel issues, Ive decided to make a DIY ethanol/fuel separator.
If there's enough interest, and if Jim feels its Ok for me to show people how to play with flammable liquids Id be happy to do a writeup on this.

The base for this build will be this 3gal water jug I picked up from Wallyworld today.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/3-Gallon-Sta ... &gclsrc=ds

Im not crazy about the cap that comes with it, but I think for the time being and the cost it will give me a good start with some improvements.

As to the issue I recently uncovered it relates to my need for speed and a fancy (Or so I thought) new gas tank I picked up. Its called a dura tank and while it is durable, the damn thing leaks like a sieve.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com ... f=1&nofb=1

I have had this tank a lil over a year and while I was having motor issues, I thought it was due to abusing this motor trying different things to hop it up and gain what speed I could with the 25hp block. While not building a "Speed boat" I wanted whatever I could get out of the motor as our lake is long and when storms come up off of the river I want to get off the lake asap.

In the normal course of things I usually add some oil to the existing mix and add a couple gallons of fresh gas on the way to the lake. At the end of last year I had issues with the motor idling and a distinct lack of power and as mentioned, I just thought the engine was getting tired due to my usage and mods.

First time out this year i realized what my issue was, bad fuel! My theory was I was consistently running watery fuel due to my refill/top off method of fueling the boat before going out. Going out this year with a fresh 6gal of fuel mix I immediately noticed I had gained back all of my power and then some.

With nothing other than a carb clean and fresh fuel I picked up 4mph over what I was consistently running last year and the motor ran great. The idle was perfect and the motor ran great overall.

Then that combined with this thread got me wondering what improvements might be seen with pure gas made through phase separation of the ethanol/water in the gas Im getting.

Didnt mean to write a book, but let me know if there is any interest.
So where does the water come from? The leaky tank, or from moisture in the air?

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RaisedByWolves
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by RaisedByWolves »

LDUBS wrote: 18 Jun 2022, 17:13 RBW, I for one would be interested in seeing your writeup.

Dumb question -- does removing the ethanol change the gasoline blend in any way that might be harmful to small engines? I think I know the answer, but it is always good to be cautious.

PS: If anyone comes up with a way to change gasoline into #2 Diesel, I would really be interested! haha.
Removing the ethanol lowers the octane a few points.

While this sounds bad, its easily overcome by starting out with a higher octane fuel. And take into account, my motor ran well enough at off idle throttle positions on gas that it wouldn't idle on due to it being waterlogged. There's also the aspect that these motors were designed to run on very low octane gas available in third world countries, so even starting out with 87 octane and finishing up with 85-84 octane wouldn't be a big deal.

The powerhead Im running right now is pushing 160psi compression and turning 6K+ rpm with seemingly no ill effects.
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poorthang
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by poorthang »

removing ethanol from fuel? isnt that like moonshining? win/win!!!!!!

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RaisedByWolves
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by RaisedByWolves »

MrGiggles wrote: 18 Jun 2022, 20:36
RaisedByWolves wrote: 18 Jun 2022, 17:04

Didnt mean to write a book, but let me know if there is any interest.
So where does the water come from? The leaky tank, or from moisture in the air?
Well, yes.

This tank is so poorly designed it will leak a voluminous quantity of gas out of both the filler neck and around the gauge cluster if tipped far enough or filled to capacity.

So yeah, I suspect both rainwater and condensation got in over weeks sitting out in the weather in the back of the boat.

Three times out of 12 trips out last year I got to the ramp with a boat full of spilled gas. It wasn't quite sloshing around in the hull, but the bottom of the boat had enough gas in it that I cautioned the wife about smoking during one trip, and another we drove around for a half hour with the tank in the back of the truck to air out the boat before launching.

Only to have gas spilled into the back of the truck when we finally got to the ramp.

Im off to look for fittings at ACE. I want to try to keep this as 'off the shelf" as possible if anyone wants to try this for themselves.
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RaisedByWolves
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by RaisedByWolves »

poorthang wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 12:50 removing ethanol from fuel? isnt that like moonshining? win/win!!!!!!
There are people actively trying to figure out what to do with the extracted ethanol.

Maybe distill it into some sort of homebrew Mezcal. Gasoline flavored margaritas anyone?
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LDUBS
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by LDUBS »

RaisedByWolves wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 12:43
LDUBS wrote: 18 Jun 2022, 17:13 RBW, I for one would be interested in seeing your writeup.

Dumb question -- does removing the ethanol change the gasoline blend in any way that might be harmful to small engines? I think I know the answer, but it is always good to be cautious.

PS: If anyone comes up with a way to change gasoline into #2 Diesel, I would really be interested! haha.
Removing the ethanol lowers the octane a few points.

While this sounds bad, its easily overcome by starting out with a higher octane fuel. And take into account, my motor ran well enough at off idle throttle positions on gas that it wouldn't idle on due to it being waterlogged. There's also the aspect that these motors were designed to run on very low octane gas available in third world countries, so even starting out with 87 octane and finishing up with 85-84 octane wouldn't be a big deal.

The powerhead Im running right now is pushing 160psi compression and turning 6K+ rpm with seemingly no ill effects.

Makes sense. Thanks!
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by C&K »

I use E10 in my 1983 Mercury four-cylinder two-stroke. Have used it for better than 10 years. Have never had a single problem with it.

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LDUBS
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by LDUBS »

C&K wrote: 22 Jun 2022, 08:19 I use E10 in my 1983 Mercury four-cylinder two-stroke. Have used it for better than 10 years. Have never had a single problem with it.

Me too, that is all I can get and my OB will handle E10. E15 is another matter.

I just read that per the Coast Guard E15 is not allowed for use in boats (and other rec vehicles) by Federal law. I don't know much about that.
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by sonny.barile »

I remember reading something about this coast guard reg….. I don’t believe it applied to trailered boats…..or boats with portable tanks.

The worst part about e15 is when it’s sitting in your engine. Older engines can be run dry when flushing….but new engines don’t like that. My guess would be that you shouldn’t let the gas in your engine parts sit there for more than a week. If you can’t get out on the water, maybe a driveway run with muffs every week would keep fresh fuel moving through. It won’t help with what’s in the tank…..but it will atleast keep your engine internals from corrosion.
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LDUBS
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E15 fuel ... now we're done for ...

Post by LDUBS »

Both Honda and Mercury say using E15 could void the warranty. I'm betting the other outboard manufacturers are saying something similar.

Here is a partial quote from Mercury Marine:

" . . . warranty coverage on a broad array of repairs and services will become void on any Mercury engine that has been operated using fuel with an ethanol content of more than 10%."

From Honda Marine:

"Using a fuel with percentages of ethanol or methanol greater than 10% may cause engine damage or performance problems that are not covered under the Distributor’s Limited Warranty ."
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