I've been thinking......

[Captain Ahab]

BassBoy - keep up that go to attitude, I am sure you can do it, and you will never know until you try.

It is not even close to impossible - lots of people have built there own aluminum boats, just takes dedication, some skill and lots of effort.

 

[dedawg1149]

all i can say is if you want to do it do it.you cant stop someone from doing what they want .maybe ill see and your boat on the lake =D>

 

[SlimeTime]

I'll post on the topic no more. You asked for opinions, and know mine. Others want to encourage your inexperienced young attitude to attempt something you're unqualified to do.....sorry, but that's the bottomline truth, at least by yourself. You made no mention of having "help", which I strongly suggest, you'll need it.

ST

 

[Leibs16]

If you do make the boat be sure to put a sweet flag on it!!

 

[SlimeTime]

If you do make the boat be sure to put a sweet flag on it!!

Would you like to elaborate on that?

 

[Kevin Morin]

bassboy1,

I'm a new poster here at the TinBoat.net site, please pardon my joining this topic's progress, I'd like to offer your younger member some comments.

To build a welded aluminum skiff of the size and general type you're interested in having will require some preparation on your part. There's no reason you can't learn the skills to build a simple skiff like this but the word 'simple' is referring to the shape of this skiff not the skill set and the time to become proficient enough to do the work.

Fortunately, all the skills can be learned with an investment of time and practice, not to mention some dollars required for tools; unless you have access to aluminum MIG and TIG equipment?

Essentially, this class of shapes of skiffs is made of developable surfaces or outlines shapes that can be built with no compound shaping- only pulling the edges together and tack weld them. Cutting, fitting, laying out this class of hull shapes is not very hard and is much less complex than English wheeling a fender or using large scale forming equipment. By saying its "not very hard" I don't mean it can be learned over a weekend but the skiff itself will layout, cut and tack up in less than two days work for two men- who know what to do.

Welding is critical to completion of these skiffs in sheet/plate aluminum but that is another skill that can be learned given some effort by the apprentice level learner.

One post above encourages you to build a model in aluminum and multiply the results by a factor to arrive at the level of effort to build these skiffs. That example may not take into account aluminum welding and could be misunderstood.

The thinner aluminum is- the harder it is to weld because the amount of heat used to fuse the parent metal becomes super critically sensitive when the sheet gets thinner than 0.060". So if you made a scale model of proportionally thin metal to your proposed 18 -20'er the aluminum sheet would so thin you'd have to be one fine hand with a TIG torch to make that model. So welding a model is actually much harder than welding a boat; don't underestimate the effort in welding thicker metal, but thinner is much more difficult.

I would prefer to build in 3/16" (0.187") sheet than in 0.080" and I've built hundreds of welded aluminum boats. So the idea about building a model as an example of how complex the boat will be- is accurate in terms of the overall idea of work scope- but the model would be much more complex to weld.

This type of boat will require the skills of laying down lines, which is simply large scale drafting using long aluminum extrusions as 'battens' or fairing strips. There is a plate model that provides the shapes of the hull panel outlines, but this can be done in software now days and you may prefer that method?

There are only five panels in these skiffs because aluminum can be purchased in 20' or longer sheets. So each half of the bottom make two, the topsides two more and the transom a fifth. That is why I called it a simple shape. Of course you may prefer a reverse chine plate to help dry the hull out but that's not a hull panel -more of a 'strake' or plank.

Extrusions would normally be used for spray rails and topsides rub rails as well as sheer rub rails and other framing elements so very little forming work is required. None of these details has to be formed of rolled, compound, pressed or wheeled panels- although some designs may call for that approach. Such a hull, one requiring that level of workmanship is more than twice the learning required to build a developable shape skiff.

Again, you can, or anyone who is interested can learn all the skills required if they will invest the time in learning and practicing that learning to arrive at the skills required to built this class boat.

I'd like to encourage your willingness to learn, but I don't want you to mistake the work to learn two or three trades to a 'medium' level- it won't happen overnight. I began building (commercially) in my early 20's, largely self taught, but you might want to avoid the plural years oilfield welding wages I wasted learning 'the hard way' how to build welded aluminum skiffs!

bassboy1, you may (or may not) not have "ears to hear" as the verse goes, and if you don't then you'll pay more to learn than you might, but we're all young an bullet-proof once, so: let's build a skiff!

cheers,
Kevin Morin

 

[Captain Ahab]

WOW - did you join at the right time Kevin - great read, thanks

 

[dedawg1149]

just make sure you post pictures inquiring minds what to know :shock:

 

[FishFry]

Since you're only becoming more determined, here are some resources that may help:

This book is geared towards large sailboats and is dated, but full of usefull information. I got a copy when I started to think about building a boat myself:
https://www.amazon.com/Boatbuilding...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223992552&sr=1-1

Welded boat manufacturers, all different styles but of good quality with great websites:
https://www.gatortraxboats.com/home.htm
https://www.roguejet.com/default.asp
https://www.theriverman.com/index.html

Thanks for the great post there Kevin.

 

[Waterwings]

bassboy,

[Wearing my moderator hat now]
I'm sure you realize that all of the posts by the members is constructive input. Probably everyone here has had a hankering at one time or another to build their own rig from the ground up. We're lucky to have some skilled tradesmen on the site to provide their insight and years of experience towards your endeavor. No one has said that you're not able to do it. We all know you can. As I stated, all of the posts are constructive input, and hopefully you take them as just that. My one piece of advice is this:..........................................just don't build it in a basement and you can't get it outside after it's done! :wink:

Keep us posted with the progress, even if it's just getting the materials together in preparation to start. 8)


Note: Seems as though most everyone has provided input/suggestions to this post, so if anyone has any further constructive comments to add lets get them posted. I'll probably lock this thread later tonight, and we can start a new thread once bassboy has his project underway (no pun intended).

 

[bassboy1]

Never had a thread I posted locked before. :shock:

As I stated, all of the posts are constructive input, and hopefully you take them as just that.

I took every one of them as that. It takes a lot to offend me. More than anybody on any board has ever come close to.

I have found a forum centered mostly around boat design/building, and am about to post a link to the thread I started there. I am probably going to get a lot of the needed info off of there, so for those of y'all wanting to follow it up until the point that I start it, just keep an eye on this thread. Once I start it, you can be sure that Jim will have to purchase more bandwidth for all the pictures I will post. https://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24587

Feel free to lock this thread. Matters not to me.

Thanks

 

[Waterwings]

Looks like a neat site. After scanning the different forums over there, it appears there is a large selection of boat types and builders to garner some knowledge from. 8)

 

[Leibs16]

If you do make the boat be sure to put a sweet flag on it!!

Would you like to elaborate on that?

Nope.

 

[Jim]

We are not going to lock this thread because we are civilized, friendly, and family oriented. :mrgreen:

Everyone gave there opinion and that is that.

Bassboy1,
If you decide to go forward I would love to have the progress of the project here too.

 

[SlimeTime]

If you do make the boat be sure to put a sweet flag on it!!

Would you like to elaborate on that?

Nope.

I thought not..........

 

[Kevin Morin]

bassboy1,

don't forget to check out the Metal Boat Society, and everyone else who likes to learn about metal boats' built by their owners. The MBS has moved around in the cross section of our group participation over the years, lots of big (36' plus) ocean going steel sail boat guys there. Not many of us coastal skiff types but we do post in our own 'area' and contribute to the overall discussion.

Plenty of good reading at the MBS and good level of technical knowledge, focus is low on socializing aspects of fishing, boating, cruising and high on metal skills methods and design issues for the owner/builder.

I post there often and write article series intended to help the aspiring aluminum builders to see an example or two of hand's-on work. I'm not always sure I understand who can see all the articles' details, but I do know you can join for free for a while before we try to get you to pay to join as a member! We've been through lots of versions of the MBS, still growing and changing this year, so our pay policy may not be welcomed by everyone, but that's the Board's current policy so I pay my few bucks to retain my membership too.

The BoatDesign net is another site with good comments and some very informed posters, but they do seem to have more than a needed share of folks with less knowledge than I'd prefer contributing to discussions. I realize that sounds less than polite but I've seen posts there that wouldn't be allowed on other sites, and that means the level of some exchanges are not worth reading.

Just above a few posts is a note about the book by Steve Pollard and I'd like to remark about the what that book is: and what it is not. First the book tells us all its a review or guide to the process of welded aluminum boats but we might not always pay attention to what a 'review' means. Second the book does review many, but not all, aspects of welded aluminum boats but it doesn't claim to be a text book and it is not. Last, the book is a guide for the learner or any inquiring person about the overall process of boat building in welded aluminum.

By using the book as a guide to learning you'd spend time in each of the chapters; design concepts (a year's time 10 hours a week doesn't really result in a good designer but it would be a good start); application of metal to hull shapes ( subset of the previous but more specialized info- a few months at best working a 20 hour week); methods of cutting forming and shaping brings more specialized study; welding- plenty of work and practice needed here. So if the book by Steve Pollard were used as a syllabus for one's learning it would serve very well, but many folks think that it is a text book for building metal boats and that's not quite on the mark.

I consider that book a good 'guide' but not a text or 'how-to' and you can only use it to guide your study into the various trades you need to learn to build. There is no step by step guide to aluminum skiff building published at this time.

bassboy1 needs to make a "decision tree" so he can see where he is and where he's going. This diagram just lists the decisions so they don't get bypassed, skipped, forgotten or ignored. First is design- yours or some else's? Next is function/purpose/use and that was given in the first post? Its settled that this boat will be welded aluminum (I guess :?: ) so the next step is; who does each stage of building? Modeling from plans? Layout of developed plates? cut fit tack and weldout? Last but more work than most bare hulls: who does all the finish work?

If bassboy1 assigns the step to himself then it implies a course of learning and practice of the implied skill set, if he assigns it to another(?) - he's got to pay for the service. With the Pollard book as a good outline bassboy1 can map the route to his skiff and plan to either acquire the skills required or hire that step done.

bassboy1, it could be time to start a design cycle topic to explore your ideas and look at your preliminary sketches?

cheers,
Kevin Morin

 

[Leibs16]

Nope.[/quote]

I thought not..........[/quote]

Actually, I was taking a shot at you cause I thought you were being hard on BassBoy. Im over it.

 

[bassboy1]

Alright. For those of y'all that haven't been watching the thread on the other page, I have decided that I will start with an existing plan, probably the Glen-L plan, or something similar, then once the very basic hull is laid, put the plan away, and work the rest from my own ideas. After reading what a couple other people have said on that board, it would seem as if that is my best option right now, and later on, when I have a better knowledge of the materials and workability factors, I can set out and draft my own.

After doing the research and asking a few questions, it would seem that our MIG setup, with the correct aluminum welding accessories, should tackle this job without a problem at all. Now, here is the real funny thing. I hadn't yet told dad about this. I usually get a plan formulated for a project myself, then when I have all the bases covered, I tell him about it. But, after supper tonight, I figured I had enough bases covered, and was going to show him the links, and start convincing him that I AM doing this (usually a harder sell. Heck, I had to argue for about 3 weeks before I was able to pursue the Yazoo idea). But, before I could say anything, he went and told me that he had ordered the aluminum accessories needed for the MIG. Wow. Also, this project was a much easier sell, and took all of about 2 minutes to convince him, as opposed to 3 weeks as my last project took. Maybe I didn't aim high enough.

The only thing was, he thinks I should go with a 20 - 21 footer, as opposed to the 18. Hmm..... :shock:

 

[FishingCop]

Alright. For those of y'all that haven't been watching the thread on the other page, I have decided that I will start with an existing plan, probably the Glen-L plan, or something similar, then once the very basic hull is laid, put the plan away, and work the rest from my own ideas. After reading what a couple other people have said on that board, it would seem as if that is my best option right now, and later on, when I have a better knowledge of the materials and workability factors, I can set out and draft my own.

After doing the research and asking a few questions, it would seem that our MIG setup, with the correct aluminum welding accessories, should tackle this job without a problem at all. Now, here is the real funny thing. I hadn't yet told dad about this. I usually get a plan formulated for a project myself, then when I have all the bases covered, I tell him about it. But, after supper tonight, I figured I had enough bases covered, and was going to show him the links, and start convincing him that I AM doing this (usually a harder sell. Heck, I had to argue for about 3 weeks before I was able to pursue the Yazoo idea). But, before I could say anything, he went and told me that he had ordered the aluminum accessories needed for the MIG. Wow. Also, this project was a much easier sell, and took all of about 2 minutes to convince him, as opposed to 3 weeks as my last project took. Maybe I didn't aim high enough.

The only thing was, he thinks I should go with a 20 - 21 footer, as opposed to the 18. Hmm..... :shock:

Cool Bassboy... I have absolutely nothing to offer that could be of any help in the build - no experience in this area. So, I simply say to keep the faith, stay motivated, maintain the quality during the build, ask a lot of questions and, oh yeah, measure twice, cut once Good luck and keep us posted.....