thompsons vs epoxy

[netman]

another question about using something like twp.....is there a temperature requirement for use. I live in Minnesota and evening often get down to single didgits above zero until the end of march or so.

did a little reading......should have read before asking. Found this on the twp site....

METHOD OF APPLICATION: MIX THOROUGHLY BEFORE USING TWP 100! Apply with brush, roll, spray, and wiping cloth or applicator pad. Do not apply below 40° F, if rain is anticipated with 48 hours or heavy dew is present.

 

[Brine]

Seems like TWP and Sikkens are still atop the leader boards alongside a few others.

I think some of this has to do with Thompson's advertising approach.. considering I haven't even heard of the two you mentioned...

Yes, Thompson's is definitely "the brand" in the deck sealer category. I can remember during the 80's, they bombarded TV with commercials. They actually have at least 20 different products. Seems as though their marketing went "all-in" with their...."This product will seal everything pitch." and it worked. Homeowner's are the ones buying it, not the professionals and I would venture to say most people who have ever put it on their deck once, never did it again. I think it works quite well as concrete sealer, not wood.

Companies like TWP, Sikkens, Cabot etc... are usually found at dedicated paint stores or hardware stores, as they and most other products found there are more "specialty" type items, than would normally be found at Home Depot and Lowes.

One of my first DIY projects when I bought my first house was refinishing a deck. Without researching it, I probably wouldn't be as familar as I am with those companies even with my paint background. Similarly.....If I had to rely on marketing (and not this site) to learn about Steelflex, my boat would have bedliner on the bottom it right now and not Steelflex which is apparently one of the best solutions in a much smaller market.

 

[Rat]

Two part epoxy is going to be the better of the two for this application.

However, epoxy is more expensive and harder to work with than water sealer.

Was thinking of using epoxy myself, exactly how hard is it to apply? Can someone descibe the process they used?

thanks

Two part epoxy isn't difficult to learn, however, It is more difficult than water sealant. Basically you buy a 'system' of epoxy. There are many brands and some have better specs than others; but for what we use it for, as a protectant, even the cheapest epoxy will work well. I use MarinePoxy and System 3 depending on what I am doing, but most of my work is structural. Having said that, MarinePoxy has VERY good specs and I use it planing boats as awell as general protectorant work.

Epoxy has a mix ratio, like 3:1 or 2:1, you MUST mix it according to VOLUME. Most people use pumps that dispense exactly One Ounce of epoxy, then you just pump once for Part A and twice for Part B, easy enough. If doing large areas, like the bottom of a hull, you will need to have graduated mixing cups otherwise it will take days to finish. If you screw up the mix it will not cure, ever. I have some sitting in a cup that has been sitting for six months that was mixed wrong and it is still soupy.

Application is done one of several ways:
Epoxy proof roller- this is a high density foam paint roller
Brush- I use chip brushes for most work except finishing, then I use a finishing brush.
Spray- Special breathing apparatus is required to spray Epoxy, do not spray unless you know what you are doing.
Squeegee- Like a Bondo spreader, moves lots of epoxy around fast and leaves a thin layer behind. Very good for large laminations.

Really, it's as easy as mixing it up and putting it on the wood. I use a minimum of three coats.

Most epoxies have hardeners specific to a temperature; in fact all hardeners are specific to a temperature range. But you can also usually get different speed hardeners, many times, for the same epoxy. For instance I use Fast, Medium and Slow hardeners based on the temperature. Slow for very hot times, medium for cooler times and fast for cold times. Using these hardeners will yield very close cure times across a vast temperature range; from about 32 degrees to 100+ degrees. So your cure time will be close to the same for 40 degrees and 90 degrees, but with different hardeners, fast and slow.

Avoid at all costs the Poly and Vinyl Ester epoxies, like Bondo. They will allow water infiltration, they are cheaper however, but you will pay for it in the long run with rotted wood. Poly and Vinyl Ester epoxies will work well on FRB or FRP wher the core is NOT wood; the worst that could happen is some small blistering.

the biggest difference in water sealer and epoxy when it comes to working it is cure times; there's just no getting around cure times with epoxy and while it is wet you can't do anything with it.

Adding a fiberglass mat or tape will allow the use of smaller core materials that have a very high strength; and is the next step in learning to work with epoxy.

It really isn't that hard to learn.

 

[Rat]

You can read about my build using fiberglass/epoxy here:

PolarKraft refit

 

[Lunkerville]

Thanks Rat for the detailed breakdown. One last question. How strong are the fumes. I plan on utilizing my garage for the project however, my daughter's bedroom is directly above the garage. Is epoxy something I should wait to do outside in the spring. Being that I am in Canada, our current temp is roughly -7 degrees celsius.

 

[dyeguy1212]

-7 degrees celsius.

That means nothing to me... :lol:

 

[netman]

-7 degrees celsius.

That means nothing to me... :lol:

Just below freezing.....0 degrees C = 32F

 

[dyeguy1212]

Haha juuuuuuust kidding


Would have been better if you put it in Kelvin in relation to absolute zero

 

[netman]

Haha juuuuuuust kidding


Would have been better if you put it in Kelvin in relation to absolute zero

LOL.....that would have been hilarous.

 

[Rat]

Thanks Rat for the detailed breakdown. One last question. How strong are the fumes. I plan on utilizing my garage for the project however, my daughter's bedroom is directly above the garage. Is epoxy something I should wait to do outside in the spring. Being that I am in Canada, our current temp is roughly -7 degrees celsius.

Fumes while wet and during curing are very low. Epoxy doesn't outgas very much as it isn't solvent based; and what little does is no big deal. I would say your daughter will never even know there is curing epoxy in the garage below her.

 

[dyeguy1212]

Thanks Rat for the detailed breakdown. One last question. How strong are the fumes. I plan on utilizing my garage for the project however, my daughter's bedroom is directly above the garage. Is epoxy something I should wait to do outside in the spring. Being that I am in Canada, our current temp is roughly -7 degrees celsius.

Fumes while wet and during curing are very low. Epoxy doesn't outgas very much as it isn't solvent based; and what little does is no big deal. I would say your daughter will never even know there is curing epoxy in the garage below her.

Haha I just got the image of a little girl waking up, coming downstairs, and asking, "Dad, why does my room smell like curing epoxy?"
:lol:

 

[Lunkerville]

Since my daughter is only 19 months, i would prefer her first drunken experience to be in college, not in the nursery due to Dad's chemical experiments in the garage :shock: lol

 

[mogfisher]

What about a good oil based paint? That's what I planned to use since it's cheap and is widely used outdoors. It seems to hold up pretty well. I figured 2 or 3 coats of that should seep into the wood pretty well and seal it up nicely. But, I don't see much of a mention on it around here. Is there a reason for that?

 

[Brine]

What about a good oil based paint? That's what I planned to use since it's cheap and is widely used outdoors. It seems to hold up pretty well. I figured 2 or 3 coats of that should seep into the wood pretty well and seal it up nicely. But, I don't see much of a mention on it around here. Is there a reason for that?

Oil based paint gets brittle over time making it more likely to chip and peel, and then be exposed to the elements. Also, the paint doesn't "seep" into the wood. You'll see that the first time you have it chip off and the wood below the paint has no stain from the paint. For framework in a boat, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Nevillizer]

Ok, here is one for you... Boiled Linseed oil. I do a bit of wood working and most of my projects see all the weather year round. You have to be careful in the application, the boiling process, but it will last a life time. Especially if you use a good quality wood. 2-3 coats and voila weather proofed product. And, once your done you can still paint it if you like.

 

[Lunkerville]

Ok, here is one for you... Boiled Linseed oil. I do a bit of wood working and most of my projects see all the weather year round. You have to be careful in the application, the boiling process, but it will last a life time. Especially if you use a good quality wood. 2-3 coats and voila weather proofed product. And, once your done you can still paint it if you like.

Nevillizer, this is interesting. Wondering if you wouldnt mind sharing the recipe.....

 

[Nevillizer]

Just get some linseed oil,home depot has its for about $20 for a gallon (container ever says boiled linseed oil). I use a hot plate to heat a pot that is about 6" deep with about 2-3 inched of linseed oil in it. Brush it on reel good and let it soak in. Repeat this process 2-3 times and you have wood that will fair the weather real well.

By heating it up it allows the linseed oil to seep into the wood grain deeper than a typical application. The result is, if done properly, the oil will penetrate all of the wood and weather proof it. You can also paint over it if you like as well if you don't like the natural finish. But if you intend on covering it with carpet I don't see the need for painting over it.

This process is used to preserve and protect wood that is exposed to the elements continuously. So for the substructure of a boat deck or even the deck itself it will work out great.

 

[Quackrstackr]

You guys need to keep in mind that carpet on a boat deck is going to hold moisture against your wood much, much longer than what just exposed wood would see. Also, residential decks are solid lumber and not laminated like plywood. There is a reason that you won't see exposed plywood decks on homes (and if you do, they won't last very long).

Exposed solid lumber can dry out in a day.. it may take weeks for water to dry out from under saturated carpet against plywood.

Thompson's water seal is only rated for a year of water repellancy iirc (I wouldn't personally give it 3 months when exposed 24/7). Saturated carpet will speed that up exponentially.

I would take my chances with oil based paint over a water sealer of any brand. Better yet, you could do both.

 

[Nevillizer]

Just get some linseed oil,home depot has its for about $20 for a gallon (container ever says boiled linseed oil). I use a hot plate to heat a pot that is about 6" deep with about 2-3 inched of linseed oil in it. Brush it on reel good and let it soak in. Repeat this process 2-3 times and you have wood that will fair the weather real well.

By heating it up it allows the linseed oil to seep into the wood grain deeper than a typical application. The result is, if done properly, the oil will penetrate all of the wood and weather proof it. You can also paint over it if you like as well if you don't like the natural finish. But if you intend on covering it with carpet I don't see the need for painting over it.

This process is used to preserve and protect wood that is exposed to the elements continuously. So for the substructure of a boat deck or even the deck itself it will work out great.

I stand by this. :!: You won't be dissappointed.

 

[netman]

Just get some linseed oil,home depot has its for about $20 for a gallon (container ever says boiled linseed oil). I use a hot plate to heat a pot that is about 6" deep with about 2-3 inched of linseed oil in it. Brush it on reel good and let it soak in. Repeat this process 2-3 times and you have wood that will fair the weather real well.

By heating it up it allows the linseed oil to seep into the wood grain deeper than a typical application. The result is, if done properly, the oil will penetrate all of the wood and weather proof it. You can also paint over it if you like as well if you don't like the natural finish. But if you intend on covering it with carpet I don't see the need for painting over it.

This process is used to preserve and protect wood that is exposed to the elements continuously. So for the substructure of a boat deck or even the deck itself it will work out great.

I stand by this. :!: You won't be dissappointed.

Best of both worlds......cheaper than epoxy but better than a water seal. Great idea. Man did this thread get some good thoughts going.