Aluminum floor thickness reccomendations

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What is the width going to be and will the floor be purely fastened to the lateral angles?

I do aerospace stress analysis and have a program at work I can use to model a section of the floor and get stresses and max deflections. It will act under the assumption that the lateral angles it attaches to are completely rigid and I will have to make an assumption on the load to give it. I would imagine a single 300 lb load distributed over a small area, like 4" x 4" at the very center, would be good enough. I could get results from that and then model in some additional bow/stern angles and see how much it drops.
 
wmk0002 said:
What is the width going to be and will the floor be purely fastened to the lateral angles?

I do aerospace stress analysis and have a program at work I can use to model a section of the floor and get stresses and max deflections. It will act under the assumption that the lateral angles it attaches to are completely rigid and I will have to make an assumption on the load to give it. I would imagine a single 300 lb load distributed over a small area, like 4" x 4" at the very center, would be good enough. I could get results from that and then model in some additional bow/stern angles and see how much it drops.
Wow - thank you! What a tremendous offer!
The hull is tapered, so the width is between 55" - 45". Mostly right around 55"
Yes, we were only going to fasten (rivet) the floor to the joists every 8" or so.
Thanks again for sharing your time and expertise!

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No problem. It isn't very difficult plus it will be a good exercise for me as I soon plan on buying a new open floor plan 1648 flat bottom and will be installing my own floor down on it's ribs. I will probably have time to do it tonight so hopefully I can have some results for you tomorrow morning.
 
wmk0002 said:
No problem. It isn't very difficult plus it will be a good exercise for me as I soon plan on buying a new open floor plan 1648 flat bottom and will be installing my own floor down on it's ribs. I will probably have time to do it tonight so hopefully I can have some results for you tomorrow morning.
Thank you again, and there is really no rush. I am glad this will be a good exercise for your boat build! I look forward to seeing what you come up with, and I suspect many readers on tin boats will be interested, too!

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wmk0002 said:
Wanted to say I didn't have a chance to do it last night. I should tonight though.
No problem, it is not a rush, and I am just grateful you are going to do it! It is great to have data to work with.

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Alright, I finally have some results for you. I assumed 6061-T6 aluminum. I'm not sure what specific alloys people commonly use for home boat mods based on pricing and availability so I just went with the aerospace standard. However, it doesn't make a ton of difference. The 2000 through 7000 series alloys all have virtually the same stiffnesses which is what drives deflection. They do have different strengths and 6061 is actually one of the weaker ones we commonly use, but it is still plenty strong for this type of application.

For the model, I created a simply supported plate model that was 54" x 12" based on your dimensions. The 54" edges were simply supported (essentially models them as just resting on your angles and assumes angles are super stiff or "rock solid"). The 12" edges were left free. I wasn't really sure what the best load to apply was but went for a totally unrealistic point load of 300 lb at the very center. Then tried it with a 300 lb load at the center but distributed evenly over a 4" x 4" section. I ran this configuration with both 0.090" and 0.125" sheet thickness.

I then added some bow to stern running supports/stringers. I added three rows evenly spaced at 13.5". I applied the same loads as above but this time at the mid-point between the center stringer and the next one over. I ran it it with both thicknesses.

So, for some numbers...
For the first configuration without the stringers I got deflections of: 1.10" for the point load and 0.97" for the distributed load at 0.090" thick; and 0.41" for the point load and 0.36" for the distributed load at 0.125" thick.
For the configuration with stringers: 0.69" for the point load and 0.58" for the distributed load at 0.090" thick; and 0.26" for the point load and 0.21" for the distributed load at 0.125" thick.

The thing I failed to do was apply a load between the edge and the first stringer for configuration two as that would be critical since it loses some support there since I left the sides free. I know it will be a little worse than what I got.

It's kind of hard for me to make any kind of recommendation based on these results since I am not really familiar with how supportive the foam you plan on adding will be. It has the potential to help a lot. However, assuming the foam does provide somewhat significant support, I would think adding in 3 or 4 rows of stringers down the center and one down each side near the edge and using a 0.090" sheet would be more than fine. By the same token, going without stringers and using 0.125" over foam will probably be comparable. Keep in mind 0.125" AL weighs about 40% more than 0.090" so weight may be a wash either way.
 
FWIW, last month I emailed and asked Alumacraft what gauge they use for the flooring in their MV1648 NCS and was told 0.080". Those models also have factory foam under the floor. So maybe someone with that model can chime in on how sturdy their floor feels and can give you the spacing of their ribs for comparison.

Also, this is the foam I have seen mentioned on here and that I have been researching for use on my future boat. https://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html You may be able to contact them and get a better idea of how structurally supportive it is. Thinking back to some of the poured foam I have encountered under decks on other boats, I can believe how it can provide a lot of support.

Using the Alumacraft info from above, I'm really leaning towards the mindset that 0.090" sheet with no stringers would be fine if the right foam was used AND done so that it is near flush with the installed floor/deck.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
Can't be of more help?! Are you kidding me? This is incredible information! Thank you so much. It will probably take me the weekend to digest it all! I'll keep everyone posted on what we decide, and how it works.
Thanks again!

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I just measured the ribs on my MV 1648 NCS. They are closer together in the front at 9" on center and then spread to 13" on center towards the back. I am 270lb and with the factory foam under the floor I feel almost no flex. Of course I get a bit but it is not something I notice as I walk around. I also measured the floor thicknes and came up with .085 but on a set of non calibrated calipers. Hope this helps.
 
Fishfreek said:
I just measured the ribs on my MV 1648 NCS. They are closer together in the front at 9" on center and then spread to 13" on center towards the back. I am 270lb and with the factory foam under the floor I feel almost no flex. Of course I get a bit but it is not something I notice as I walk around. I also measured the floor thicknes and came up with .085 but on a set of non calibrated calipers. Hope this helps.
This is incredible- thanks so much for measuring the spacing and floor thickness and chiming in! It is wonderful to have all these data to help with this decision! I know this thread will be useful for others, too. Thanks again!

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uncndl1 said:
Great progress so far, thank you for sharing. Have you decided which pound of the pour urethane foam you are going to use? i.e. 2#, 3#, or 4#. Best regards.
We haven't ordered it yet, but we are planning to go with the 2#, based on comments here.

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uncndl1 said:
Great progress so far, thank you for sharing. Have you decided which pound of the pour urethane foam you are going to use? i.e. 2#, 3#, or 4#. Best regards.
Thank you! This group has been such a great resource!
daschmetterling said:
uncndl1 said:
Great progress so far, thank you for sharing. Have you decided which pound of the pour urethane foam you are going to use? i.e. 2#, 3#, or 4#. Best regards.
We haven't ordered it yet, but we are planning to go with the 2#, based on comments here.

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Be careful foaming. High expansion rate with that foam. Far as a drain channel goes...you may want to use a pipe or conduit to act as a mold cavity to run to your drain plug. ANYWHERE you don't want foam, use lots of car wax on that surface and the foam won't stick.
 
riverrat717 said:
Be careful foaming. High expansion rate with that foam. Far as a drain channel goes...you may want to use a pipe or conduit to act as a mold cavity to run to your drain plug. ANYWHERE you don't want foam, use lots of car wax on that surface and the foam won't stick.
Great advice, thank you!

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riverrat717 said:
Be careful foaming. High expansion rate with that foam. Far as a drain channel goes...you may want to use a pipe or conduit to act as a mold cavity to run to your drain plug. ANYWHERE you don't want foam, use lots of car wax on that surface and the foam won't stick.

Don't take this to the bank, but I think I have seen where a drop tarp, like for painting, was used to line the inside. Supposedly wax on top of it works well.
 
wmk0002 said:
riverrat717 said:
Be careful foaming. High expansion rate with that foam. Far as a drain channel goes...you may want to use a pipe or conduit to act as a mold cavity to run to your drain plug. ANYWHERE you don't want foam, use lots of car wax on that surface and the foam won't stick.

Don't take this to the bank, but I think I have seen where a drop tarp, like for painting, was used to line the inside. Supposedly wax on top of it works well.
Good to know- i'll look into it. Thank you!

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