First post, first boat project....

[Trout Hunter]

Hi there. Been lurking for a week or so and and have been impressed with the amount of help and knowledge available. First, a little background.... soon to be 38, don't know squat about boats or outboards. Live on the Coast of Maine and fish a lot. I fly fish 99% of the time and always on foot. There are places I'd like to visit with a boat..... fresh water only at this point until I get some experience. I live near a major river and have easy access to the ocean/rivermouth where the fishing is pretty good.

The boat..... 1980, (we think) Mirrocraft 14 footer. Open boat, three bench seats with no frills.
The Motor.... 1980, (we think) Mercury 200 20 horse that runs rough. Working on changing out what appear to be the oiginal spark plug wires today to see if we can get rid of the annoying miss at 1/2 throttle or better.

The pictures will come this afternoon or tommorrow morning after I get up to camp and work on it.

The plan.... add a floor, new transom (if it is deemed that I need one), a front casting deck and a bit of storage. If anyone has ideas on how to make it a center console, (the motor isn't set up for cables), i'd love to do that. But I think it is out of reach unless I get a new motor. Maybe I can mod the boat so that it will be an easy upgrade at a later date?? electronics I haven't thought too much about but I plan to run some pvc somewhere under all this mess for future wiring of lights and maybe a trolling motor. (gps? stereo?)

The Problems.... when the boat is under full power with my fat *** in the stern it gets on plane easy enough but porpoises really bad and scares me half to death. I end up backing out of the throttle. I think that the modification will add some extra weight and solve that problem. The transom flexes really bad with that motor on it. The motor porbably weighs 100 pounds or so. I think the wood in the transom needs replaceing and that this would help but I don't kow for sure. Can I just take er out and replace it with a sealed piece of 2x6? I found some old 8th inch steel plate at work that I plan to add to the motor section as a plate to help stiffen it all up. I have a smaller piece that I can put in the front, sort of sandwiching the transom. I also have some large fender washers to put at the end of the bolts that hold the motor on, (the original screw down things were missing their little round anchors and I think I need more surface area than just the bolt to actually hold the motor. I have an old piece of rubber 1/4 inch thick or so that I plan to cut up and use under the mounting pieces of the motor. (the screw down thingies that hold the motor on and a small piece under the part of the motor mount that hangs off the back). I figure this will add some cmpressability to the whole thing and allow me to feel like i got that baby on their tight enough to never come off.

The story.... I had always wanted a boat and finally bought this beaut about 3 years ago.First trip out it ran fine but the pull handle came off in my hand when it was time to go..... found some good samaritans to help us beach the boat, give a ride back to the launch, and help get the boat back on the trailer. I fixed the handle pull myself and tied a knot in the rope so if it comes off again I won't lose it up inside the motor. 2nd trip out it started ok, we got half way across the lake, fished a bit and when we started it back up to leave.... it ran like carp and then conked out. got towed back to the dock by yet another good samaritan. Third trip out i never got it started..... between trips 2 and 3 it went to the shop. they checked it over and said it was fine, "must have had the vent on the tank closed". (I was pretty sure I didn't but who knows.) Took it back to the same shop after the 3rd trip and we determined that the rust in the bottom of my tank was clogging the carburator. New tank, new line, and the showed me that I had to hold the bulb vertical when priming. (I previously hadn't been). The boat sat for 2 years after that. I just didn't have it in me to fail again..... Last week I took her out determined to get this thing to work! Ran better than it ever has, (thanks probably to the new tank and fuel line). But I found this anoying miss..... and after it has warmed up and run around the lake a bit it still is iffy when you let it cool for about 30 minutes and then restart. It idles fine at that point but when you give it the gas it just dies.....?? Any ideas? I am thinking that if new plug wires doesn't help it I might just put her up for the winter and work a bunch of overtime for a new 15 horse. How much for a new 4 stroke?? I thought I saw one for around $2200 but can't find it for the life of me now in the internet.

Conclusion..... I welcome all ideas, tips, criticisms, etc. Like I said, I am really a rookie about all of this so what seems obvious to many of you is greek to me. I have looked a tons of projects on here and have some great ideas from you guys. Also some questions....
1. If I paint my boat, will wire brushing the outside and then cleaning it real good be good enough to hold primer or is there another process I should use?
2. I notice many of you attached little "L" brackets to your ribbing to hold the 2x4 supports. Is this enough to keep it all from shifting? Won't the constant stress eventually break them? (at 255lbs I don't trust many things....)
3. If I make it a center console, thus removing the middle bench, is 2x4 framing under the floor enough to stiffen her back up again? (I saw someone who did this but can't understand how it worked.) Would simple 2x4 coverd with ply wood be solid enough to hold the wheel, throttle, electrical switches and stereo? ( I have ideas that I might make a bench seat to sit on while I drive with storage under the seat. maybe even use the existin rear bench but fear it is too far back)
4. Soup to nuts, if I strip the whole thing down and start from scratch, how long would a project like this take? If I started as soon as I can get it in the garage next spring, could I have it ready my early may or late april? (one month or so)?? I plan to work ot and save up to do this project. If I save $1000, I think that should give me what I need to do the mod. Am I about right? Wood, screws, water sealant, silicone, seats, brackets, carpet, lcoker hinges and pulls.... what am I missing? (assuming I don't go the cable sterring route.) What would it cost to convert to a cable system for steering and throttle controle?? and how can I do it with the motor I have?? (I don't expect that I can.... I also expect that I'll purchase a new motor a couple of years out anyway. Are there small outboards 10-20 horse that Can be set up for a center console? Brand loyalties anyone?? How good are used motors? (mine is almost 30 years old.... some thing 5 years or less maybe??)

Ok, i know this was long. future posts will be shorter. I just sort of wanted to get it all out at once. I know I'll have questions in the future as I go. I'll try and post the pictures later today.
Thanks in advance for all your help. and thanks to the guy or guys who create these types of forums for us all to learn from. YOU GUYS ROCK!!

Karl

 

[Captain Ahab]

Nice 1st post - welcome aboard. If your transom flexes you need to do something ASAP!


As far as the motor - check you fuel, fuel filters and carb settings. Sounds like you have a fuel problem - maybe just rebuild the carb.

It woudl be pretty costly to convert your hull to a CC - do not know your budget, but i suggest that you purchase a used CC boat w/ out the motor and use your motor. you can price out the control cable adapters.

We converted my 16' MirroCraft from tiller control to a control console and, at the time (about 20 years ago) I think we spent about $2,000.00 - I woudl double price that today


i am sure soem of our other members will jump in with great advice

 

[Trout Hunter]

Found some old photos..... I will post more later.

 

[Trout Hunter]

Hey thanks.... I figured the cost would be huge to do that.
The fuel is brand new as is the tank and such. Carb might have some gunk but was rebuilt two years ago when we thought that was the problem. (guy at a reputable boat shop did it.)
You can actually hear it missfire. I am really hoping the plug wires set it right. Or atleast right enough that I can use it this year and then deal with the mod over the winter and maybe find a good used motor for next year..... I think what I have is good, I just have to fix whats wrong. (if I can figure it out...)

 

[Captain Ahab]

Here is my converted MirroCraft

 

[SlimeTime]

Hi Karl! Your post asks a awful lot of questions, and just a suggestion you might try one or 2 things at a time. lol...by the time I read them all I forgot 90% of them :mrgreen:

If I were you, I'd go completely through your motor, including impeller, carb & fuel pump rebuilds, and tune-up....cheaper than a new motor, or buying another used one with the same (or worse) problems. Add some Sea-Foam to your gas as well.

Personally I wouldn't want to add a console in that small of a boat.....but heck, that's what makes the world go-'round :wink: You'd be better-off buying a boat already set-up with one. Dad has a 14' Mirro and a 20 horse Johnson, and with just me in it it'll scoot-along pretty good & plane-out easy. You've only got about 20 pounds on me.

If the paint is good, don't remove it, use a scuff-pad to rough it up & repaint over it. No need to prime the entire boat. Wouldn't use steel on your transom, find a piece of aluminum.

I'd think $1000 would get you there (or really close), of course unless you plan to buy a $600-800 trolling motor Just spent about $400 on mine, but didn't replace seats or add alot of bells & whistles.

Instead of just putting $$ back, just go buy material as you can afford to.....before you know it you'll have enough to get started.

ST

 

[bAcKpAiN]

Welcome aboard! You have come to the right place. There are a great many folks here with knowledge and experience to help answer some of your questions.

I am not the most knowledgable but #1 priority for me would be getting the transome structuraly sound. I would try to replace the wood with the same size that is already there even if you have to sammich' the wood. I would not put a console in a 14' boat simply for room and movement restrictions (especially for a flyfisherman) I have learned to love having a tiller because once you get down to the business of fishing the whole boat is wide open. As far as the motor goes I have been learning some myself. I would personally replace the plugs and wires and then see if there are any carb adjustment knobs or screws. On my 82 25HP Johnson if I don't have the carb adjustment screw right my motor stalls out as soon as I give it fuel. Always elliminate the cheap and easy before spending money!

 

[Zum]

I agree with the above posts:
fix transom first,
if the old tank was rusty,probably sucked some back into the filter or carb;like C.Ahab said check the fuel system,changing wires and plugs might help also,
as far as the porpoising,weight up front will help but could be how the outboard is tilted or even your prop,
1000 bucks is a real good amount for a mod and if you really want a consoled boat,that amount of money should buy you one,especially in the winter.
Welcome to the forums.

 

[Trout Hunter]

Ok, just got back from camp..... forgot my camera there so no pics today.
changed out the plug wires. Motor was typically hard to start but purred like a happy cat after I got it going. No more missing! Thing runs better than I had hoped. So phew... don't have to buy a new motor.
The transom is junk and will be coming out. It lookes like it was replaced once before...... It looks like a 2x10 ripped and fitted. Easy enough to replace. I think I read somewhere about no pressure treated?? No biggie either way, I just want to know. Now, what type of wood sealer? My Father in law says that Thompsons has been downgraded by consumer reports and does not last.... anyone have any input as to brands? I have some scrap 2x4 and 1/2 ply laying around that i'll build a temp floor in the back for the rest of this year and then work on my plan from there. I've already scraped the idea of a center console.... its just not big enough.
The boat in the post above seems bigger than mine..... but i like the idea.
Going to try and make a tiller handle extension out of hose clamps and pvc. (the one I bought doesn't fit over the handle..... seems I read that on here somewhere too.

Question. I am wondering if a second piece of 2x10 in between the braces under the transom board is a good idea. The motor says right on it "caution, bolt through transom". I am kinda thinking i'd like to do that and an extra piece is neccessary because the transom piece won't fit between the rear braces. Any good or bad points on this??

Thanks folks. that is all.
for now......

 

[Captain Ahab]

I do not think you can make a transom too sturdy. Overdo it - it will not hurt a thing and will possible save your motor from the Davey Jones locker

Keep us posted

 

[brewfish]

Sorry about this being a small novel but do you think you could ask a couple more question next time? :beer: :LOL2:

The Problems.... when the boat is under full power with my fat *** in the stern it gets on plane easy enough but porpoises really bad and scares me half to death. I end up backing out of the throttle. I think that the modification will add some extra weight and solve that problem.

I can't recall ever seeing any bass boats using these but almost always flats boats do so maybe it's more of a flats boat salt water thing. I digress you can certainly help alleviate this situation by adding weight to the bow but IMHO a better solution would be to use trim tabs. They make a big difference in the performance of the boat as a whole & also the engine. Here's just a few of the main benefits : improved fuel efficiency, increased top speed and of course putting an end to the dread porpoising.

There all sorts available but as always it just depends on how much money you want to spend. Here's a link that explains a little more about them https://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/tabsdo.htm

If anyone has ideas on how to make it a center console, (the motor isn't set up for cables), i'd love to do that. But I think it is out of reach unless I get a new motor.

I know i've seen conversion kits available to convert tiller to remote but you might have a hard time finding one for a motor that old. My personal opinion is that if you really have your heart set on remote steering then just buy a newer motor that already is setup for that type use. Since it should come with the throttle / shift control & cables you would just be left with the steering.

As far as a center console, have you ever thought about just have stick steering? It's not as cool as having a steering wheel but it doesn't require a console leaving you more precious space. You would have the throttle/gear shifter on one side of your seat and the have the stick on the other (you push it forward or pull back to turn left or right) I hope I don't come off like i'm talking down to you but you did say you were a newbie so please excuse me if i'm sometime stating the obvious.

I found some old 8th inch steel plate at work that I plan to add to the motor section as a plate to help stiffen it all up. I have a smaller piece that I can put in the front, sort of sandwiching the transom.

If it ain't 316 or at least 304 stainless steel but rather it's cheap old carbon steel do yourself a favor and don't use it. That stuff just looks at water and starts rusting, not to mention that saltwater fishing probably is in your future. If you want to do something like that I would go to a sheet metal fab shop with a drawing & measurements and have them cut and break it for you.

Here's a little story about me breaking & fixing my stern. My motor hit a stump that was about 6" under water at WOT. It broke my stern by ripping the top aluminum rolled edge piece that the playwood fits under that the motor sits on. I ripped the top edge completely in two and also had a small rip going down towards the bottom of the boat. The best part is when i hit somehow it made my throttle hand fly up and i punched myself in the face! ](*,) So hard in fact that I split my lip, bloodied my nose and knocked myself off the bench set and dang near out of the back of the boat. I fixed it by using a thin piece of 316 stainless that was as wide as the wood was and long enough to reach about 3/4 of the ways down either side of the stern. I had it broke to form like a square "C" so the whole deal just slid right down on top of stern. I ran almost exclusively in saltwater (about 8 years worth) and it never even showed the slightest hint of rust and it made the stern rock solid.

I also have some large fender washers to put at the end of the bolts that hold the motor on, (the original screw down things were missing their little round anchors and I think I need more surface area than just the bolt to actually hold the motor.

I would go buy 2 replacement screw down things. It shouldn't be that expensive and besides do you really want to take a chance something that important? Twenty or thirty bucks is a pretty cheap fix and you'll know that it's done right. You've already had the displeasure of breaking down a couple times so if i were you I'd go to great lengths to prevent something else happening when your out especially when it don't cost that much.

How much for a new 4 stroke?? I thought I saw one for around $2200 but can't find it for the life of me now in the internet.

This place gets new stuff pretty often https://smalloutboards.com/ They have some 2007 15hp 4-stroke Merc "fish camp motors - used one season only in fresh water" short shaft for $1895 Also look at yours and surrounding areas craigslist and any local Penny Saver type paper yall have. Just keep in mind that a 4-stroke will be heavier than 2-stroke. You said current 20 HP 2 stroke weighs about 100lbs, the 15 hp 4-stoke above weighs in @ 104 lbs. Just some food for thought.

1. If I paint my boat, will wire brushing the outside and then cleaning it real good be good enough to hold primer or is there another process I should use?

A good paint job is 90% prep and 10% application. The paint is only as durable as what it's sticking to. If the current paint still has good adhesion then you just need to give it a good rough up with some 120 grit sandpaper. If you feel the need to use a wire brush or wheel make sure that it's stainless steel not just steel because if any bits of the brush get embedded cheap steel will eventually rust and the stainless won't also stainless steel brush bristles are a hell of alot tougher than the other. Just before you start painting wipe down everything with something like acetone to remove any wax, dirt, grease, etc and then you can start laying down the paint. You can prime it if you want to but I don't thick that it 100% necessary. If it's bare aluminum then it's a whole other ball game.

A couple of hints. Multiple thin coats always produce superior results compared to one that's too thick. Too much paint cause it to run and stay soft and tacky longer and if it's really thick. It could take days (maybe weeks) to cure right if at all. I'd put on 2 or 3 thin coats and lightly sand with some 220 sand paper between coats and wipe clean with a tack rag before the next coat.

If you go with some of the more high end paints such as Interlux make sure you stick with the same brand throughout the painting process. Each brands paint system has been specifically formulated to work together to provide you with the best possible results. If you start mixing and matching (i.e. one expensive brand paint and a different brand spraying thinner) there's no telling what the end result will be.

As for the application you can achieve great results without having to use a spray rig. I painted mine with a 4" foam roller and a angled trim brush. It came out great and if I didn't tell people I rolled it they would never know. 8) If you have the means and the space to spray then that's the way to go but just remember that the paint doesn't go as far when you spray.

2. I notice many of you attached little "L" brackets to your ribbing to hold the 2x4 supports. Is this enough to keep it all from shifting? Won't the constant stress eventually break them? (at 255lbs I don't trust many things....)

Can't say since I used 1/4" angle aluminum for all my bracing but I doubt they're going to break. If anything I would be more concerned with rust and corrosion since most of those things are just galvanized metal and you're thinking about saltwater. You could always get some 2"x2" 1/4 thick (thinner if using SS ) aluminum angle and just cut short pieces and use those instead. You could also just skip the 2x4's and go all aluminum angle. That way you'll keep the weight down and never have to worry about rotting.

3. If I make it a center console, thus removing the middle bench, is 2x4 framing under the floor enough to stiffen her back up again? (I saw someone who did this but can't understand how it worked.) Would simple 2x4 coverd with ply wood be solid enough to hold the wheel, throttle, electrical switches and stereo? ( I have ideas that I might make a bench seat to sit on while I drive with storage under the seat. maybe even use the existin rear bench but fear it is too far back)

Any type of stringer attached to the ribs is going to stiffen the boat and help maintain the hulls shape / integrity. I think you could get away with removing the back seat without having problems with the hull wanting to warp. You'll still have the front seat(s) that's getting decked and the back part will have either stringers with plywood on top or just plywood connecting them all together so I think you'll be fine.

4. Soup to nuts, if I strip the whole thing down and start from scratch, how long would a project like this take? If I started as soon as I can get it in the garage next spring, could I have it ready my early may or late april? (one month or so)??

That depends on how much time you have to spend on the boat each week and your skill & knowledge level. Oh yah it also helps speed things along when you have someone else helping. I know I've learned a good bit through out the build. I could have been done by now if i wouldn't have needed to research so many things. I also ran out of $$ part way through the build so that didn't help either.

I plan to work ot and save up to do this project. If I save $1000, I think that should give me what I need to do the mod. Am I about right? Wood, screws, water sealant, silicone, seats, brackets, carpet, lcoker hinges and pulls.... what am I missing? (assuming I don't go the cable sterring route.)

As for the budget amount being enough, that just depends. Is this a boat you plan on keeping for a long time or one that you will only use a season or two and then dump it for something better? I wouldn't go nuts on something that's going down the road in a year or two. OTOH you might want to spend a little more on the build buying higher quality building materials like using as much stainless or aluminum as possible and higher end goodies like electronics & seating.

There's areas that it's ok to try and cut cost (paint was one area for me) and other areas I won't budge on. Seating for me is very important since I tend to fish anchored up a good bit. That alone is going to set me back about $275 between mounting hardware and actual seats.

Decide what's most important to you and how much your willing to spend on it and then start dividing up the budget that way. You can also save a considerable amount of money by avoiding big box stores for all your screw, nuts, bolts, etc. Go to a store that only deals with fasteners. Last time i went to our local nut & bolt store the guy behind the counter ended up giving me way more of everything than what I asked for and in the end charged me not even a quarter of what i had previously paid in Lowes for a heck of alot less.

Another good point about going to a place like that is they will have all your hard to find specialty items and if they don't have something they'll usually be willing to order it for you. You also won't have problems getting everything in stainless. Lowes has a tiny, very limited section for SS fasteners and they want friggin fortune for what little they do have. Saving a little here and there adds up pretty quick.

 

[Trout Hunter]

Oh man oh man ohman! I am taking notes on all of this! Really excited about this project. Now, for the questions one at a time....

I hope to replace the transom wood asap. certainly before I put it in the water again. IS Pressure treated ok to use for that or should I use regular wood and treat it? My gut says PT is the way to go even though its wicked heavy. The stuff in there is really rotted out. I plan to replace the piece ther and then put another under it, (lower down towards the floor) through wich I can bolt my motor as it says I should on the bracket. ANyideas one way or the other about this plan?? Thanks.

 

[Mossy535]

I personally wouldn't use pressure treated. The treatment is a copper compound and if you get that, saltwater, and aluminum together you could end up corroding the aluminum.

To replace the wood in my transom, I laminated two pieces of 3/4" plywood together using Gorilla Glue. Then I gave it three coats of Helmsman Spar Urethane by Minwax. You can see what I did here:

https://tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30059#p30059

And, welcome aboard!

Mark

 

[Trout Hunter]

couple more pics.
I was thinking of making the low spot on the transom a bit smaller. When I decellerate, I get water over the top of it at the low spot. I plan on leaving the motor where it is so I'll cut out a spot for it to fit into but is there any reason I shouldn't make that low spot a bit higher where I can?

How important is the piece of aluminum along the top of the transom? All I can see is that it is there to dress things up. I'll be sealling and sanding the wood so I don't see a need for the aluminum. Anybody have an opinion??

I also plan on filling the gap between the braces with another 20inch piece (size of the gap) of 2x10, through which I will bolt my motor right to the transom. ANy thoughts on this? I can't see a reason not to do it.

I am going with a 2x10 that I'll cut to fit and then seal with three coats of the Helmsman Spar Urethane that was recommended. Hope to gitrdone by next weekend.

Off to Lowes to get some bolts, wood and urethane!

 

[Trout Hunter]

 

[Zum]

You have to make sure your outboard will be in the water enough,besides that theres know problem that I could see.
The aluminum you have does dress it up nice,also it keeps water from going directly in the side grain of your wood.That thin strip can't be a strengthing thing.If it was a peice of 2"square tube going from side to side that be different.
Do you need that second 2by10 to bolt the outboard to or will it attach to the first peice.Not sure if a peice inbetween the braces not hooked to anything will strenthen it or not,don't think it will hurt though either.The more holes you drill in the stern the more places water will try to get in.

 

[Trout Hunter]

ok, transom wood is out. Rotted! and very soft right where the motor would sit. So, whats stronger a 2x10 like I said or some plywood that is gorrilla glued together at the right thickness??
I think that the plywood wood be stiffer but not necessarily stronger..... leaning toward the plywood after seeing other do it the same way. hoping to get it glued and first layer of sealant on it tomorrow. I have a full sheet or 5/8 that I didn't use for the shed last fall.... gonna use three layers of that.

Zum- the holes on the motor mount are well below where the regular transom wood will be. I think the the 2x10 cut to fit between the supports will then provide a soled base to mount to. I plan to put this below where the plywood transom will be. I know what you are saying though about holes and water finding a way in..... I am planning on fillilng the holes with silicone caulk and then putting the bollts through. any excess silicone should seal er up pretty good. I was also thinking of a thin layer of 2 part epoxy over the outside of all my fasteners after they are in place..... but I don't think it would work forever cause it is so hard. All the flexing and jarring from use might work it loose and then i'd be back at square one. I also have some rubber boot material that I will make washers out of. That shoule do it combined with the silicone caulk. I can't imagine it would leak after that.

 

[Trout Hunter]

I should add that all the hardware I will use to reattach will be stainless. found some steel, some stainless, some zinc, some brass..... whoever replaced it last used what they had.... I only had to drill out 7 rivets, the rest were broken, and cut off 2 bolts. (stainless bolt with steel nut....)

 

[Zum]

It's good to bolt outboards to the stern but IMO don't go nuts.I use the highest hole above the water line and only put 2 stainless bolts(quarter") through,the holes are like 3 inches from the top...thats with a 40hp.The 30hp I have on now isn't even bolted yet but probably should be.It deters theives and it is a safety issue but even silconed,apoxyed,etc.water never gives up

 

[SlimeTime]

I'd see if I could find a nice piece of hardwood, maybe you have a local sawmill? Or ask the owner of a heavy wood decked trailer where he gets his decking at (or he might even have a left-over piece).

Once you find it, and have it cut, give it a soaking with some water-sealant, and paint it if you want.

ST