rscottp
Well-known member
Looks like you could split the seats without too much trouble. That base is probably what is holding it together. You would have to find something to cover the outside backs with.
TinBoats.net
The original aluminum boat site!
60's Sportsman runabout
- Thread starter bobberboy
- Start date
Help Support TinBoats.net:
ccm
Well-known member
The project is coming along nicely! Beautiful work on the new transom. Me personally I like the idea of the cockpits in the original 60's style. Not to long ago I saw a restored/modified mahogany wooden runabout. It was a nice boat & on the original benches it had nice bucket seats mounted to them, it looked clean & professional not something that looked tacky or anything like that. There are endless options such as just plain wooden benches ( letting the next owner deal with cushioned seats ), mounting nice bucket/fold over seats onto the benches, making snap in/out cushions type 60's style seats for the benches, or having an upholstery shop make a custom set of cushions/seats. Just throwing some ideas your way but I'm sure whatever you choose to do it will turn out great because you have great craftsmanship. Great project can't wait to see more!
A couple of things to add.
I spent all of yesterday trying to get the rest of the interior of the boat stripped. It has been a hit-or-miss deal for the past few weeks, doing a little when the mood strikes me. I want to get it finished today if possible then power wash and see what it looks like. I may post a pic just for the "before and after" but it's going to just be shiny aluminum (I hope).
I've been looking ahead to some of the details and have a question. I have all the old cable steering parts and with new cable could just replace that system. I am wondering whether I should find a good used telescopic steering system instead. I don't really care if the steering is vintage to the boat or not, just mostly about how well it works. What I've got is paid for and there's something to be said for that. I just don't have any experience with steering systems for boats. All the pulleys, springs, etc. from the original seem to be good. Just don't know what's best.
There is a behind the scenes dynamic going on with the project I haven't mentioned. As I said at the beginning I can't keep the boat. I was hoping to give it to a family member but, like when tomatoes come in during a bumper year and your friends stop answering your calls, my family runs away when they see me coming. I'm not sure what's the deal, mostly storage issues I guess. I think too they don't share my love of vintage boats. I think it may partly be vision too. The thing looks like a wreck and it's hard to believe it'll ever be anything else than a boat-shaped pile of junk. My brother was my first choice but he's not been too interested. I've shopped it around to other family members but no one's interested. It's an important question for me as who gets it impacts how much $ I'm willing to put into it. If a family member I'll be ok with spending more. If I have to sell it I'll never come close to recouping what I've got into it and will probably make decisions based on money. Well, over the weekend my brother was down and we spent some time looking at the boat. I was able to show him some of the work I've done to start to put the thing back together. Suddenly he told me he getting interested in this boat! We talked about some of the variations possible and at one point he was even talking about making it an inboard using a motorcycle engine (he rebuilds 60's-70's motorcycles). Aha! The fish sees the bait. Now, if I'm a patient angler, I'll play the bait and maybe I can boat this boy. Time will tell.
I spent all of yesterday trying to get the rest of the interior of the boat stripped. It has been a hit-or-miss deal for the past few weeks, doing a little when the mood strikes me. I want to get it finished today if possible then power wash and see what it looks like. I may post a pic just for the "before and after" but it's going to just be shiny aluminum (I hope).
I've been looking ahead to some of the details and have a question. I have all the old cable steering parts and with new cable could just replace that system. I am wondering whether I should find a good used telescopic steering system instead. I don't really care if the steering is vintage to the boat or not, just mostly about how well it works. What I've got is paid for and there's something to be said for that. I just don't have any experience with steering systems for boats. All the pulleys, springs, etc. from the original seem to be good. Just don't know what's best.
There is a behind the scenes dynamic going on with the project I haven't mentioned. As I said at the beginning I can't keep the boat. I was hoping to give it to a family member but, like when tomatoes come in during a bumper year and your friends stop answering your calls, my family runs away when they see me coming. I'm not sure what's the deal, mostly storage issues I guess. I think too they don't share my love of vintage boats. I think it may partly be vision too. The thing looks like a wreck and it's hard to believe it'll ever be anything else than a boat-shaped pile of junk. My brother was my first choice but he's not been too interested. I've shopped it around to other family members but no one's interested. It's an important question for me as who gets it impacts how much $ I'm willing to put into it. If a family member I'll be ok with spending more. If I have to sell it I'll never come close to recouping what I've got into it and will probably make decisions based on money. Well, over the weekend my brother was down and we spent some time looking at the boat. I was able to show him some of the work I've done to start to put the thing back together. Suddenly he told me he getting interested in this boat! We talked about some of the variations possible and at one point he was even talking about making it an inboard using a motorcycle engine (he rebuilds 60's-70's motorcycles). Aha! The fish sees the bait. Now, if I'm a patient angler, I'll play the bait and maybe I can boat this boy. Time will tell.
Kismet
Well-known member
The behind-the-scenes dynamic is interesting. I think you are rehabbing a great piece of American Waterway History. Folks may come around when they can see prize, and not just the process.
I've always had a very limited budget, so best-for-less had to be a standard, and I'd shop a lot before getting items. (It is actually reassuring to me that you think you might lose money if you have to sell it; in all but one of the rehabs I've done, I've lost money.
I thought it was me.)
I'd keep the old steering system, given the question marks that exist on future ownership. I'm pretty sure those seats were made individually and then put together, so they probably can be taken apart intact. The backs of the quadruple might be unfinished, but a staple gun and some vinyl can fix that.
I think you are demonstrating superior craftsmanship,and should take some pride in what you're doing.
=D> =D> =D>
I've always had a very limited budget, so best-for-less had to be a standard, and I'd shop a lot before getting items. (It is actually reassuring to me that you think you might lose money if you have to sell it; in all but one of the rehabs I've done, I've lost money.
I thought it was me.)I'd keep the old steering system, given the question marks that exist on future ownership. I'm pretty sure those seats were made individually and then put together, so they probably can be taken apart intact. The backs of the quadruple might be unfinished, but a staple gun and some vinyl can fix that.
I think you are demonstrating superior craftsmanship,and should take some pride in what you're doing.
=D> =D> =D>
.
Kismet, thanks for the above.
I think I'm going to go with wooden bench seats which will be a bit like the original. I want to keep the cockpits and will make a split seat in front and a bench seat across the back. Mahogany slats and mahogany book-matched plywood for the large areas. I'll cover it with resin and it'll outlast me by a generation. This is stuff I can fabricate on rainy days outside of the boat and install when it's done. Also, my skills are with wood and I should use them rather than pay for metalwork or upholstery.
Kismet, thanks for the above.
I think I'm going to go with wooden bench seats which will be a bit like the original. I want to keep the cockpits and will make a split seat in front and a bench seat across the back. Mahogany slats and mahogany book-matched plywood for the large areas. I'll cover it with resin and it'll outlast me by a generation. This is stuff I can fabricate on rainy days outside of the boat and install when it's done. Also, my skills are with wood and I should use them rather than pay for metalwork or upholstery.
Great build. How does mahogany hold up to the weather? I have several 8/4 White Oak boards and some 4/4 Sapele, but prefer Mahogany a transom after seeing your build. May have to take a trip to the mill.
Why did you waterproof with resin vice a spar varnish? Just curious if I need to head back to Rockler for a return.
What type of [CAD?] program did you use for your mock up in the last post? I'm lucky I could turn the computer on, but I'd like to be able to more effectively communicate my boat ideas and that looks like just the ticket!
Superb progress so far.
Why did you waterproof with resin vice a spar varnish? Just curious if I need to head back to Rockler for a return.
What type of [CAD?] program did you use for your mock up in the last post? I'm lucky I could turn the computer on, but I'd like to be able to more effectively communicate my boat ideas and that looks like just the ticket!
Superb progress so far.
I believe mahogany is common enough in boat building. Because it grows in wet environments it stands up well to moisture. I guess teak is probably the wood of choice but I happen to like the mahogany and it is what had been used in the boat previously. It machines well and is readily available. It is relatively open grained and compared to oak is soft. It takes stain well and evenly, soaking deep into the open pores - especially compared to woods like birch and maple - staining is easy to do.
I'm not really a wooden boat guy but I believe with spar varnish you have to expect a certain amount of maintenance in the future. The transom is so hard to replace that I just figured coating in resin should make it last until the end of days. I'm not a resin guy either but thought it was the best chance at keeping the water out. If I do a good job of sealing all those rivet holes and any other misc screw holes along the way I figure it should last. Given how many holes there were in the old one and how relatively good it was after 50 years of abuse I should be good to go. I don't know about UV though. Someone here probably does.
The CAD program is called MacDraft Pro and as you might suspect it is for Macs. I've used some version of it for almost two decades. To call it a CAD program slightly glorifies it - compared to AutoCad it's pretty basic. It does do a good job with simple 2-D drawings and I've been very happy with it for my needs at work and other projects. I can also import pics and draw over them which is often useful.
I'm not really a wooden boat guy but I believe with spar varnish you have to expect a certain amount of maintenance in the future. The transom is so hard to replace that I just figured coating in resin should make it last until the end of days. I'm not a resin guy either but thought it was the best chance at keeping the water out. If I do a good job of sealing all those rivet holes and any other misc screw holes along the way I figure it should last. Given how many holes there were in the old one and how relatively good it was after 50 years of abuse I should be good to go. I don't know about UV though. Someone here probably does.
The CAD program is called MacDraft Pro and as you might suspect it is for Macs. I've used some version of it for almost two decades. To call it a CAD program slightly glorifies it - compared to AutoCad it's pretty basic. It does do a good job with simple 2-D drawings and I've been very happy with it for my needs at work and other projects. I can also import pics and draw over them which is often useful.
[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=360659#p360659 said:
I found this boat this morning on C'sL. The top is all mahogany and the configuration is similar to what I'm going to do. The color of the wood in the photo is quite yellow. That may be in the photograph, maybe some fading (the boat is a '57), yellowing of the varnish or all of the above. Sometimes mahogany can be light and tend towards yellow. That is typical of luan plywood but can also be found in some hardwood boards. I will go for the redder colors when I buy material for my project.
borntofish
Active member
Hey bobberboy,
As a native of Minneapolis, I'm proud of you! I wish I had your skills (and tools). HaHa. I can't wait to see the next pics. Keep 'em comin'.
As a native of Minneapolis, I'm proud of you! I wish I had your skills (and tools). HaHa. I can't wait to see the next pics. Keep 'em comin'.
Just for the record, I spent two very happy years in northern CA and wish I was there still - even in the summer. It didn't take a native Minnesotan long to figure out you don't have to shovel rain...
Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for the kind words.
.
Since my last post I've finished stripping the inside of the boat. I power-washed then went back and did a little touch up stripping with a 2" wire brush to get into the corners where the larger one wouldn't. Finally I'm done taking crap off the boat and can start putting some back on. I wiped down the inside with mineral spirits so before I paint I will wash one last time with a grease removing detergent like Dawn, hose it down and then get some primer on. The area below the floor will get a coat of bed liner.
There was still a lot of gunk under the ribs.
I started looking around for aluminum for framing the floor. It's expensive so in order to keep the $ down I tried to figure a way around buying a lot of aluminum angle. I started to look on C'sL for aluminum and didn't have much luck. I got to thinking about what else made of aluminum I might use instead of buying angles. I hit on the idea of getting a used extension ladder if one could be had for a good price. I found a 16' one for $15 and decided to use it as a start and build from there. I originally was going to cut the rungs off which would leave me with four rails - basically light duty "I" beams. Once I got the two sections apart and put one into the boat I decided to try to use one section intact and see if I can build from there. I guess I should also say that I decided to go with the flat floor in order to be able to add enough floatation below and to make the building of the seats and other interior parts easier.
The eight foot section of ladder leaves me about three feet short of the transom. I hadn't planned to put a floor in the way-back because the gas cans will end up there and I will put foam in the remaining area for floatation.
Last thing was finally filling those two large holes in the hood. I epoxied a piece of aluminum below each hole and used the same two-part filler I have used on the other smaller holes. I got that sanded this afternoon too and will put a thin coat of Bondo over them and the other small holes with a final light sanding before I start to prime.
Since my last post I've finished stripping the inside of the boat. I power-washed then went back and did a little touch up stripping with a 2" wire brush to get into the corners where the larger one wouldn't. Finally I'm done taking crap off the boat and can start putting some back on. I wiped down the inside with mineral spirits so before I paint I will wash one last time with a grease removing detergent like Dawn, hose it down and then get some primer on. The area below the floor will get a coat of bed liner.
There was still a lot of gunk under the ribs.
I started looking around for aluminum for framing the floor. It's expensive so in order to keep the $ down I tried to figure a way around buying a lot of aluminum angle. I started to look on C'sL for aluminum and didn't have much luck. I got to thinking about what else made of aluminum I might use instead of buying angles. I hit on the idea of getting a used extension ladder if one could be had for a good price. I found a 16' one for $15 and decided to use it as a start and build from there. I originally was going to cut the rungs off which would leave me with four rails - basically light duty "I" beams. Once I got the two sections apart and put one into the boat I decided to try to use one section intact and see if I can build from there. I guess I should also say that I decided to go with the flat floor in order to be able to add enough floatation below and to make the building of the seats and other interior parts easier.
The eight foot section of ladder leaves me about three feet short of the transom. I hadn't planned to put a floor in the way-back because the gas cans will end up there and I will put foam in the remaining area for floatation.
Last thing was finally filling those two large holes in the hood. I epoxied a piece of aluminum below each hole and used the same two-part filler I have used on the other smaller holes. I got that sanded this afternoon too and will put a thin coat of Bondo over them and the other small holes with a final light sanding before I start to prime.
borntofish
Active member
The ladder idea was pure genius! How will you atatch it to the floor? How will you brace the outer edges of the floor? This has been a lot of fun watching you. Keep it up.
I spent a lot of time today looking at and thinking about how to make the framework for the floor. I found out that the bracing (ribs, etc.) aren't symmetrical. There are two problems with that - one is that I'm pretty anal and the other is that if I don't make the floor flat and the same distance down from the gunwales I am going to suffer later when it comes to installing the interior. If I make the floor flat and the distance down from the gunnels the same on both sides the interior pieces will be symmetrical and much easier to fit. So the first thing was to try to establish a distance down from the gunnels to the floor. I just used a piece of square tube steel laid on the gunnels and made my measurements down to points in the interior so I could begin to calculate the differences. The total difference from highest point to lowest point was 5/8". That much wouldn't matter if I was going to put in a floor and pedestal seats because there'd be nothing to show the difference. Because of all the wood I will be cutting for the cockpits and bulkheads it will matter.
First pic - measurements at the first rib to floor...
You can see in the next two pics that the front cross-piece is resting on the ribs but the second one (closed in the pic) is about 1/2" +or- above the ribs. I will shim this up when I attach it to the ribs and will reinforce it further (haven't figured that detail out yet).
I also sanded the Bondo fill on the hood and got a coat of primer on it to see how well the epoxy putty worked. I m very pleased...
That's about as close to a downtown bit of work as I can get. Very happy the epoxy putty worked so well as I have used it on about 50 other holes elsewhere on the boat.
Also saw something that's important to pass along. Almost every week someone writes in to the forum to ask about removing seats and the structural implications. I had not noticed before today some evidence of why not to take out all the structure. This boat is 14'. The bench seats had long ago been removed and there was nothing tying the boat together side-to-side from the dashboard all the way to the transom. This is nearly 10' of unsupported sides. You can see on the following three pics how the stress on the gunwales from not being supported has cracked them. The cracks are immediately aft of the dashboard, the only structure holding the sides together. There's no question about why the gunwales cracked and where it happened. Pretty good evidence of how important the seats are in the structure of the boat.
Starboard side
Port side
Port side close up
More later...
First pic - measurements at the first rib to floor...
You can see in the next two pics that the front cross-piece is resting on the ribs but the second one (closed in the pic) is about 1/2" +or- above the ribs. I will shim this up when I attach it to the ribs and will reinforce it further (haven't figured that detail out yet).
I also sanded the Bondo fill on the hood and got a coat of primer on it to see how well the epoxy putty worked. I m very pleased...
That's about as close to a downtown bit of work as I can get. Very happy the epoxy putty worked so well as I have used it on about 50 other holes elsewhere on the boat.
Also saw something that's important to pass along. Almost every week someone writes in to the forum to ask about removing seats and the structural implications. I had not noticed before today some evidence of why not to take out all the structure. This boat is 14'. The bench seats had long ago been removed and there was nothing tying the boat together side-to-side from the dashboard all the way to the transom. This is nearly 10' of unsupported sides. You can see on the following three pics how the stress on the gunwales from not being supported has cracked them. The cracks are immediately aft of the dashboard, the only structure holding the sides together. There's no question about why the gunwales cracked and where it happened. Pretty good evidence of how important the seats are in the structure of the boat.
Starboard side
Port side
Port side close up
More later...
Most of the last few days have been spent doing all kinds of stuff I didn't want to do. Today was supposed to be spent on the boat but major interruptions took up most of the day. Also, I can't figure out how I want to frame the floor so instead of dealing with that question I practiced avoidance - again. Last fall I threw the trailer together in order to get the boat on it and put away before the snow flew. I have a lot of details to finish including the wiring and carpeting/adjusting the bunks so I tried to focus on some of that today. But as I said, lots of interruptions.
In order to work on the trailer I had to get the boat off it so, in the spirit of my caveman ancestors, I lifted and grunted and got it up on saw horses and two-bys. Pretty horsey but it worked. Slipped the trailer out from underneath and got a little done. In my next life I'm going to have a big shop with good lighting and a gantry or overhead something-or-another or at least some stringers that I can use to do this kind of thing. I don't think I would have done this except the boat is completely empty.
I've been forgetting to mention, I think the boat might be named The Silk Purse
Hopefully some more work tomorrow...
In order to work on the trailer I had to get the boat off it so, in the spirit of my caveman ancestors, I lifted and grunted and got it up on saw horses and two-bys. Pretty horsey but it worked. Slipped the trailer out from underneath and got a little done. In my next life I'm going to have a big shop with good lighting and a gantry or overhead something-or-another or at least some stringers that I can use to do this kind of thing. I don't think I would have done this except the boat is completely empty.
I've been forgetting to mention, I think the boat might be named The Silk Purse
Hopefully some more work tomorrow...
I finished framing the floor using the aluminum ladder and some misc. other aluminum I had around. The ladder was ok in theory - it was cheap and did a pretty good job down the middle but its usefulness for the rest was not as good. Used on edge it's fine but on the flat it's really not that structural. In the way I used it it's going to be fine but not beautiful...had I been doing a deck on a jon boat it would have been great as I could have used it all on edge for the stringers. As it was, I could only use it on edge down the middle due to the shallow depth of the floor. All in all, it'll work but not one of my proudest moments. Good thing for plywood going on top of it.
You can see in this pic what a contraption the thing is.
After all those hours cleaning the black crap out of the inside of the boat today I put black crap back in. I used two quarts of bed liner to paint the area that will be under the floor. I can't actually say why I did it, I guess because I see so many who do. It's going to be covered by foam and floor but I guess I thought it was a good way to seal the bottom from inside and make a good foundation to start from. The other thing is that in my never ending effort not to do things half-assed I often do things 2x-assed. Oh well, it's done. I'm going to let it cure for several days while I do some details elsewhere and on the trailer. Also going to visit my daughter for a few days.
This bed liner stuff is really foul. I can't believe the fumes didn't kill everything within a hundred foot radius - including me. I had a breeze, a fan going, I was working outside and still had to have a respirator. I first blew out everything with an air hose and then wiped with acetone and finally the bed liner. The fumes from the bed liner make those from the acetone seem mild in comparison. If you ever use the stuff don't even think about not using a respirator. You can't replace brain cells.
The next step inside is to attach the framing to the ribs, run a couple of empty conduits for wiring, fill the cavity with foam and put in the floor. I haven't put the new transom back in yet wither but now that I've thoroughly coated the bottom with the bed liner I can get to that too.
You can see in this pic what a contraption the thing is.
After all those hours cleaning the black crap out of the inside of the boat today I put black crap back in. I used two quarts of bed liner to paint the area that will be under the floor. I can't actually say why I did it, I guess because I see so many who do. It's going to be covered by foam and floor but I guess I thought it was a good way to seal the bottom from inside and make a good foundation to start from. The other thing is that in my never ending effort not to do things half-assed I often do things 2x-assed. Oh well, it's done. I'm going to let it cure for several days while I do some details elsewhere and on the trailer. Also going to visit my daughter for a few days.
This bed liner stuff is really foul. I can't believe the fumes didn't kill everything within a hundred foot radius - including me. I had a breeze, a fan going, I was working outside and still had to have a respirator. I first blew out everything with an air hose and then wiped with acetone and finally the bed liner. The fumes from the bed liner make those from the acetone seem mild in comparison. If you ever use the stuff don't even think about not using a respirator. You can't replace brain cells.
The next step inside is to attach the framing to the ribs, run a couple of empty conduits for wiring, fill the cavity with foam and put in the floor. I haven't put the new transom back in yet wither but now that I've thoroughly coated the bottom with the bed liner I can get to that too.
borntofish
Active member
I would think the bed liner would make the hull quieter on the water. I think your ladder structure will add rigidity to the hull. I can't wait to see it finished. I would love to ride in it and chase some Walleyes. Your ambition is contagious!
Ail
Well-known member
Man that is a slick boat. Love the concept, she will be a beaut.
The ladder may not be ideal, but for $15, man that's improvising on a budget. =D>
The ladder may not be ideal, but for $15, man that's improvising on a budget. =D>
starcraft12
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
Kudos on the progress! Lovin' it. =D>
A long-winded report this time...
I was gone for several days after the bed liner painting. That stuff is incredibly rude but luckily my brain's at a point in its life-span that loosing a few more cells didn't seem to have any major affect - at least none that showed (yet!). After five days of curing I took off the boat cover and there was practically no odor left. That made me feel better about having used it. So it was back to finish the floor framing and begin to add floatation.
I had to place some of the foam before I screwed the floor framing down. Once that was done I filled in the areas beneath and between the framing members gluing it all with PL300 foam glue.
I should back up a moment to say that as part of finishing the framing I added two conduits to the framing in order to make electrical runs from the front to the back of the boat. I used 1" PVC pipe tied to the long sides of the ladder with zip ties. At the front I drilled a hole into each web of the ladder and cut the PVC at 45° to create a passageway into the pipes as seen below.
You can see the hole near the bracket at the inside front left of the ladder.
And out the back. There won't be a floor in the back 30" to accommodate two gas cans and a battery.
Next was a cardboard template for the floor.
The floor needs to be about 56" wide at its widest point. Rather than take the time to hunt down a piece of 5'x9' plywood, and in order to use exterior glued material, I used a 4'x8' piece of ACX to which I had to add 8" to the width. In order to take advantage of the strength of the plywood in combination with the framing I decided to add the 8" strip in the center of the plywood. This seems counter-intuitive and kind of crazy but the way the framing worked out there is more strength at the middle than at the edges. I was worried that adding a strip to the edge of the sheet would create a weak area along the joints on both sides. Adding the strip in the center places the weakest areas (the joints) along the strongest part of the framing and the area where I can put the most fasteners. So, crazy or not here's what I did.
This may be TMI for this thread but there may be some out there who would be interested in how edge joining is done. I must say at the start that if this was good hardwood I would have had to take better care in how I handled and clamped the boards. In this case because it's plywood and will be covered with carpet I was only interested in making a good glue joint and not in being meticulous about how it was done.
There are several ways to make edge joints. Using a biscuit joiner is popular these days, and there is the more traditional dowel which is what I used. There is also a spline joint which essentially creates a two-sided tongue-and-groove joint but with plywood it is really not ideal (fine when manufactured that way, not so easy once the plywood becomes warped after the fact).
I used dowels because I think they're more accurate, at least for me they seem to work better. The biscuit joiner requires the operator to always be paying attention that the tool is flat and firmly on top of the material being joined - otherwise a sloppy joint will occur. The dowel process uses a self-centering jig that insures the hole is always in the center of the edge of the boards being joined.
The jig has several holes for different sized drill bits. I used 3/8" bit and dowels. You can see on the side of the jig the numbers stamped into the jig indicating the drill size. What you cant see in the scribe mark indicating the center of the hole.
To begin I clamped the two edges together that I was joining. It's important to take this step when marking out the holes. I used a square and drew a line across the joint on 16" centers and 2" in from each edge. This gave me accurate lines for each half of the joint to align the dowel jig to. Do this carefully and accurately and the thing goes together easily. Do a sloppy job and you won't be able to bring the two sides together no matter how much cursing you do. It's important.
So you set the jig with the scribe mark aligned to the pencil mark for each hole, tighten and drill.
And as they say, "viola", a perfectly centered hole.
I should note that you shouldn't drill the holes too deep or you'll drive the dowel too far into one side of the joint. Drill them too shallow and you won't be able to bring the joint together. Take your time, do it carefully. The dowels I used were 2" deep so I drilled each hole about 1-1/8" deep. You can make your own dowels from stock dowels but I prefer the pre-made fluted ones. The fluted ones allow the glue and air to escape as you drive the dowel into the hole making for a better more solid seating of the dowel.
Once the holes were drilled I squeezed some waterproof glue into the holes of the narrow side and seated the dowels, wiping off any glue that worked its way to the surface.
Once all the dowels are seated in one side of the joint, you squeeze glue into the opposite set of holes and glue one edge of the plywood. I glued the narrower half that I had already installed the dowels into. Once you've glued the edge (on a real project you'd glue both edges) it's time to put the two together. I aligned the dowels with the holes and with the aid of four pipe clamps slowly brought the two halves together, working from end to end about 1/4" at a time. Once The two halves were together I repositioned the clamps and really tightened them.
There is a tendency for the pressure of the clamps to cup the joint in the direction of the clamp - in this case up. In a real shop you'd have enough clamps to use an equal number on eace face of the joint making the pressure equal and keeping the joint flat. In my garage/outdoor "shop" I improvise a lot. I used a 2x4 along the length of the joint and clamped it to the plywood. This put pressure against the downward force of the clamps and straightened out the joint at each end. For the middle I clamped boards cross-wise and that flattened the joint. Even though it should be obvious, the edges of the boards need to be at 90° to the surface or you'll never make a flat joint. Even a degree counts as a degree on each side makes a total of two degrees off.
Ok that's it. Sorry for the long post. Tomorrow the other half of the joint and then cutting out the floor.
I was gone for several days after the bed liner painting. That stuff is incredibly rude but luckily my brain's at a point in its life-span that loosing a few more cells didn't seem to have any major affect - at least none that showed (yet!). After five days of curing I took off the boat cover and there was practically no odor left. That made me feel better about having used it. So it was back to finish the floor framing and begin to add floatation.
I had to place some of the foam before I screwed the floor framing down. Once that was done I filled in the areas beneath and between the framing members gluing it all with PL300 foam glue.
I should back up a moment to say that as part of finishing the framing I added two conduits to the framing in order to make electrical runs from the front to the back of the boat. I used 1" PVC pipe tied to the long sides of the ladder with zip ties. At the front I drilled a hole into each web of the ladder and cut the PVC at 45° to create a passageway into the pipes as seen below.
You can see the hole near the bracket at the inside front left of the ladder.
And out the back. There won't be a floor in the back 30" to accommodate two gas cans and a battery.
Next was a cardboard template for the floor.
The floor needs to be about 56" wide at its widest point. Rather than take the time to hunt down a piece of 5'x9' plywood, and in order to use exterior glued material, I used a 4'x8' piece of ACX to which I had to add 8" to the width. In order to take advantage of the strength of the plywood in combination with the framing I decided to add the 8" strip in the center of the plywood. This seems counter-intuitive and kind of crazy but the way the framing worked out there is more strength at the middle than at the edges. I was worried that adding a strip to the edge of the sheet would create a weak area along the joints on both sides. Adding the strip in the center places the weakest areas (the joints) along the strongest part of the framing and the area where I can put the most fasteners. So, crazy or not here's what I did.
This may be TMI for this thread but there may be some out there who would be interested in how edge joining is done. I must say at the start that if this was good hardwood I would have had to take better care in how I handled and clamped the boards. In this case because it's plywood and will be covered with carpet I was only interested in making a good glue joint and not in being meticulous about how it was done.
There are several ways to make edge joints. Using a biscuit joiner is popular these days, and there is the more traditional dowel which is what I used. There is also a spline joint which essentially creates a two-sided tongue-and-groove joint but with plywood it is really not ideal (fine when manufactured that way, not so easy once the plywood becomes warped after the fact).
I used dowels because I think they're more accurate, at least for me they seem to work better. The biscuit joiner requires the operator to always be paying attention that the tool is flat and firmly on top of the material being joined - otherwise a sloppy joint will occur. The dowel process uses a self-centering jig that insures the hole is always in the center of the edge of the boards being joined.
The jig has several holes for different sized drill bits. I used 3/8" bit and dowels. You can see on the side of the jig the numbers stamped into the jig indicating the drill size. What you cant see in the scribe mark indicating the center of the hole.
To begin I clamped the two edges together that I was joining. It's important to take this step when marking out the holes. I used a square and drew a line across the joint on 16" centers and 2" in from each edge. This gave me accurate lines for each half of the joint to align the dowel jig to. Do this carefully and accurately and the thing goes together easily. Do a sloppy job and you won't be able to bring the two sides together no matter how much cursing you do. It's important.
So you set the jig with the scribe mark aligned to the pencil mark for each hole, tighten and drill.
And as they say, "viola", a perfectly centered hole.
I should note that you shouldn't drill the holes too deep or you'll drive the dowel too far into one side of the joint. Drill them too shallow and you won't be able to bring the joint together. Take your time, do it carefully. The dowels I used were 2" deep so I drilled each hole about 1-1/8" deep. You can make your own dowels from stock dowels but I prefer the pre-made fluted ones. The fluted ones allow the glue and air to escape as you drive the dowel into the hole making for a better more solid seating of the dowel.
Once the holes were drilled I squeezed some waterproof glue into the holes of the narrow side and seated the dowels, wiping off any glue that worked its way to the surface.
Once all the dowels are seated in one side of the joint, you squeeze glue into the opposite set of holes and glue one edge of the plywood. I glued the narrower half that I had already installed the dowels into. Once you've glued the edge (on a real project you'd glue both edges) it's time to put the two together. I aligned the dowels with the holes and with the aid of four pipe clamps slowly brought the two halves together, working from end to end about 1/4" at a time. Once The two halves were together I repositioned the clamps and really tightened them.
There is a tendency for the pressure of the clamps to cup the joint in the direction of the clamp - in this case up. In a real shop you'd have enough clamps to use an equal number on eace face of the joint making the pressure equal and keeping the joint flat. In my garage/outdoor "shop" I improvise a lot. I used a 2x4 along the length of the joint and clamped it to the plywood. This put pressure against the downward force of the clamps and straightened out the joint at each end. For the middle I clamped boards cross-wise and that flattened the joint. Even though it should be obvious, the edges of the boards need to be at 90° to the surface or you'll never make a flat joint. Even a degree counts as a degree on each side makes a total of two degrees off.
Ok that's it. Sorry for the long post. Tomorrow the other half of the joint and then cutting out the floor.
Similar threads
