CedarRiverScooter
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I would take a hammer & punch & cave that brass seal can inwards until you can grab it with needle nose pliers.
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Good advice Cedar
That is one bugger of an original seal to remove!
On the box? I would find an original box, with or without components and build your own. Usually a box will come with the terminal board in it at least.
Try and find a complete one with trashed wiring.
That thread you found has some good advice and a good wiring schematic.
That is one bugger of an original seal to remove!
On the box? I would find an original box, with or without components and build your own. Usually a box will come with the terminal board in it at least.
Try and find a complete one with trashed wiring.
That thread you found has some good advice and a good wiring schematic.
Piomarine
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I tried using needle nose last night and ended up bending the tip on my pliers! Is there any reason why I couldn’t apply some heat to try and weaken the glue?
Was that using the screw method I linked ? That usually works easily. As suggested take a small straight blade screwdriver and tap the outer edge of the seal toward the center to break it's grip on the outer edge. Once that corrosion is broken it should come out easily. You don't want to be doing that on the other seals so lets discuss further if you have doubts about how to do it with the screw...
Piomarine
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No Shaugh I had actually missed the video link you shared...just flat out overlooked it! I went back and found it and now wish I had seen it much earlier. There’s enough metal left that it could still work so I will try it this afternoon.
Starts about 3:30 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52J-XPTx24
The fine thread sheet rock screw or sheet metal screw works best. Drill the tinyest hole you can... the screw will easily expand that brass to fit tight. Drill it right at the outside edge just in a fuzz....Grind the tip of the screw down a little to mimimize scratching underneath, but you don't have to worry much about that... the screw can't damage anything significantly. hold the screw straight up and down while you tighten. Don't let it angle off..
You need to learn this way because other seals are sometimes deep inside the housings...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52J-XPTx24
The fine thread sheet rock screw or sheet metal screw works best. Drill the tinyest hole you can... the screw will easily expand that brass to fit tight. Drill it right at the outside edge just in a fuzz....Grind the tip of the screw down a little to mimimize scratching underneath, but you don't have to worry much about that... the screw can't damage anything significantly. hold the screw straight up and down while you tighten. Don't let it angle off..
You need to learn this way because other seals are sometimes deep inside the housings...
Regarding the solenoid box.
I would be very tempted to pick up a box and the lower front cowl for a 57 or 58 johnson or evinrude 35.
They are more common and you can use the plug connection instead of hard wiring.
I think a box from 59 is ok, maybe even later is fine too but the lower cowl changed after 1958 and anything newer wont bolt up.
I would be very tempted to pick up a box and the lower front cowl for a 57 or 58 johnson or evinrude 35.
They are more common and you can use the plug connection instead of hard wiring.
I think a box from 59 is ok, maybe even later is fine too but the lower cowl changed after 1958 and anything newer wont bolt up.
Piomarine
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Ok I’m at a loss with this drive shaft seal...I attempted the screw method 3 times. What resulted was 2 broken drill bits and 2 screws broken off inside the seal itself. I’m really getting afraid that the amount of damages caused by attempting to remove this seal has been FAR worse than it would’ve been if I had left the seal alone on the first place. 2 of the attempts at strumming the screw resulted in the screw punching right through the bottom of the seal right into the drive shaft housing. One of those punched through the wall of the drive shaft housing and this is after I cut the pointed ends off of the screws. I really don’t know where to go from here and can not afford to buy a new lower unit. How screwed am I?
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Not sure how screwed you are until the seal comes out.
I still want you to take a small flat blade screwdriver and tap the sides of the seal inward...all the way around. Then try and grab the pieces with a pair of side cutters or similar and try and pry it up and out. Use another screwdriver or something to lay the side cutters against while prying to protect the housing.
Try this first then we will get a bit more drastic if need be.
I still want you to take a small flat blade screwdriver and tap the sides of the seal inward...all the way around. Then try and grab the pieces with a pair of side cutters or similar and try and pry it up and out. Use another screwdriver or something to lay the side cutters against while prying to protect the housing.
Try this first then we will get a bit more drastic if need be.
Piomarine
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Could I start applying some direct heat to the seal to hopefully soften whatever adhesive they used? Also what should I do about the 2 broken screws that are stuck inside and basically mechanically fastening the seal to the lower unit?
When things first start looking like that you should probably just stop immediately.. In retrospect the screw method on that seal might have been a bad idea after it was that chewed up... it doesn't have the structural integrity it needs for the screw to push against...
Do what Pappy suggests..... take a small flat screwdriver and drive the edge of the seal inward... it's just a thin piece of sheet metal and should fold fairly easily. Drive it inward till you can grab it with a sidecutter or a needle nose and just twist it out of there... whatever damage was done should not be serious... It can be fixed...
Do what Pappy suggests..... take a small flat screwdriver and drive the edge of the seal inward... it's just a thin piece of sheet metal and should fold fairly easily. Drive it inward till you can grab it with a sidecutter or a needle nose and just twist it out of there... whatever damage was done should not be serious... It can be fixed...
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I am glad Shaugh went there first. Keeps me from being seen as the hardass... 
This style of seal does not lend itself to the screw method well at all. The material and design are vastly different than more modern seals. That is 20/20 hindsight at this point however.
This style of seal does not lend itself to the screw method well at all. The material and design are vastly different than more modern seals. That is 20/20 hindsight at this point however.
Piomarine
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Thank you for not being to hard on me for making such a stupid rookie mistake like that. The knowledge and support I get from the community here is awesome and why I have left other online communities.
The seal did finally come out. I have been talking to Shaugh about the damage from attempting the screw method. The screws ran behind the driveshaft bushing and destroyed it so now I need to find a way to either remove that bushing or force it back into round and file down any burs and edges. One screw is still lodged behind it and broken off.
The seal did finally come out. I have been talking to Shaugh about the damage from attempting the screw method. The screws ran behind the driveshaft bushing and destroyed it so now I need to find a way to either remove that bushing or force it back into round and file down any burs and edges. One screw is still lodged behind it and broken off.
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CedarRiverScooter
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You should replace that bushing. If you can't find an OEM one, any machine shop can replicate it easily. Check a bearing supply store, they may have one that is close & you can just ream it to size.
Piomarine
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The bushing is easy to get, it’s the getting it out part I am scratching my head over. I have been advised that the path of least resistance would be to pull the pinion gear and associated bearings and tap it out from the top. I have also been advised that pulling those bearings...sucks...advice on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Several mistakes were made. I'll take the blame if needed...
Number one is that the shaft is usually left in place.. the screw usually lodges between the shaft and bushing and creates minimal damage... should have thought of that...
Number 2 was recommending sharp hard brittle drywall screws..... but that's what the guy in the movie used.... should have thought that through better...
Number 3 was not putting emphasis on doing this gradually... side to side as the seal slowly comes straight out... you can't do it all in one quick move.
The idea was to learn how to do the screw method because as far as I know there is no other way to do the upper seal... He's getting ready to try that one so if anyone else has an idea let's hear it...
I think with the correct steel screw and a very rounded nose the screw method is the right way to do it...
Number one is that the shaft is usually left in place.. the screw usually lodges between the shaft and bushing and creates minimal damage... should have thought of that...
Number 2 was recommending sharp hard brittle drywall screws..... but that's what the guy in the movie used.... should have thought that through better...
Number 3 was not putting emphasis on doing this gradually... side to side as the seal slowly comes straight out... you can't do it all in one quick move.
The idea was to learn how to do the screw method because as far as I know there is no other way to do the upper seal... He's getting ready to try that one so if anyone else has an idea let's hear it...
I think with the correct steel screw and a very rounded nose the screw method is the right way to do it...
Regarding the bushing problem...
If the screw wasn't broke off in there you could just pound it all back flat with a tapered 5/8" shaft and grind it down a little. That's a big bushing and that little damage on an end would be no problem.
But the screw is a big problem.. with it there you likely won't be able to drive out the bushing either... my suggestion would be to machine out the entire top of that bushing with something like this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drills-96275.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNjAzODM2OTYiLCJza3UiOiI5NjI3NSIsImlzIjoiMTIuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiMzQ0NiJ9%0D%0A&cid=paid_google|*PLA+-+All+Products|All+Products|96275&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=*PLA+-+All+Products&utm_content=All+Products&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4sfn-Oqg6wIVrgOzAB37RQGeEAYYBiABEgIb4fD_BwE
I bet you could drill that down in there and remove all that damage... and when you're done the housing will still be perfectly usuable.... the one on the right.. shaft is 5/8". aluminum housing is 3/4"... drill it down carefully and remove the screw piece as soon as you can.. anyone with other ideas ?
If the screw wasn't broke off in there you could just pound it all back flat with a tapered 5/8" shaft and grind it down a little. That's a big bushing and that little damage on an end would be no problem.
But the screw is a big problem.. with it there you likely won't be able to drive out the bushing either... my suggestion would be to machine out the entire top of that bushing with something like this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drills-96275.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNjAzODM2OTYiLCJza3UiOiI5NjI3NSIsImlzIjoiMTIuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiMzQ0NiJ9%0D%0A&cid=paid_google|*PLA+-+All+Products|All+Products|96275&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=*PLA+-+All+Products&utm_content=All+Products&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4sfn-Oqg6wIVrgOzAB37RQGeEAYYBiABEgIb4fD_BwE
I bet you could drill that down in there and remove all that damage... and when you're done the housing will still be perfectly usuable.... the one on the right.. shaft is 5/8". aluminum housing is 3/4"... drill it down carefully and remove the screw piece as soon as you can.. anyone with other ideas ?
this one is better... it's maximum diameter is 3/4"... it will cleanly remove the bushing all the way down if needed... but I suspect you'll be able to stop as soon as the screw is gone... and not even replace the bushing...
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/titan-1-4-in.-to-3-4-in.-step-drill-bit-16504/12059989-p?product_channel=local&store=3150&adtype=pla&product_channel=local&store_code=3150&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7YHK4O-g6wIVCYiGCh3HOwsYEAQYAiABEgJ1_vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
or this might work even better:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SGS-3-4-Carbide-Rotary-Burr-File-Single-Cut-Tree-American-Made-1-2-7/321901407847?hash=item4af2d1ae67:g:QfsAAOxy3hJSTzDq
Grind out as much of the old one as you need to get past the screw and the damage... then cut a piece of this and drive it in :
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/bronze-sleeve-bearing-5-8-in-inner-dia-x-3-4-in-outer-dia-x-1-1-8-in-length
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/titan-1-4-in.-to-3-4-in.-step-drill-bit-16504/12059989-p?product_channel=local&store=3150&adtype=pla&product_channel=local&store_code=3150&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7YHK4O-g6wIVCYiGCh3HOwsYEAQYAiABEgJ1_vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
or this might work even better:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SGS-3-4-Carbide-Rotary-Burr-File-Single-Cut-Tree-American-Made-1-2-7/321901407847?hash=item4af2d1ae67:g:QfsAAOxy3hJSTzDq
Grind out as much of the old one as you need to get past the screw and the damage... then cut a piece of this and drive it in :
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/bronze-sleeve-bearing-5-8-in-inner-dia-x-3-4-in-outer-dia-x-1-1-8-in-length
RaisedByWolves
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I use a slap hammer and a two jaw internal puller.
Then again I have that on hand.
It will do the seal and bushing if you can find one.
Maybe it can be rented?
Then again I have that on hand.
It will do the seal and bushing if you can find one.
Maybe it can be rented?
Piomarine
Well-known member
Well I used a hybrid of ideas here a unibit to deburr and bring back into round and low and behold it popped right back into shape. I took it down 1 step on the top and cut into the screw a little bit. I then took a sanding tip on the dremel and ground everything down to level. I also used it to clean up some of the tool marks. I then reemed it out, deburred again and cleaned out all shavings and dust. The drive shaft now sits true and spins without resistance (though it could use a little grease).
