Tough decision/need help

[scoobeb]

Well i just pulled the trigger,a brand new 2013 20hp 4stroke electric start short shaft tiller,$2935,i couldn't wait any longer it was killing me.I just went with my gut,i think this is the winner for me.

 

[RAMROD]

Suzuki?

We hit the river this evening and I threw the long shaft Nissan 9.8 on the boat just because I didn't feel like fighting with a motor for a couple hours of fishing. Our boat is basically the same as the one you have anyway with the long shaft all the way in the water we were getting 17 mph on GPS running with the current so we are definitely going the a new 20 Tohatsu. Just need to sell the 15, 9.9, and 9.5 along with a couple 12' boats first.

Looking forward to hearing how the 20 performs on your boat!

 

[scoobeb]

Opps yes,suzuki,i'm so pumped up.I have had a few new outboards in my life but i have never actually taken one out of the box and just put it on my stand and polish her all up.I fig i may as well get the electic start for a couple hundred more,when i start adding some electronics to the boat the motor will come in handy to recharge the battery.One of the biggest things that steered me away from yamaha is you get an electric start and there is no pull start if the battery fails,to me that is the worst design i have ever seen in a portable.Plus i just talked to a guy on craigslist who just bought a 2013 20hp 4stroke yamaha from his dad and he originally had a 2008 carbed 15hp suzuki on his boat,he said the 20hp yamaha is a poor accelerating motor out of the hole,he said he would of kept the suzuki if he knew the yamaha was so slow out of the hole,over all he said the top end is good but it takes forever to get there and he has a very light boat.

He said hands down the suzuki has way more power,thats a 15hp carbed motor so i can imagine how much power the 20hp will have with efi instead of carb.I have heard that several times to about the yamaha,that it's a dog but this guy just verified what i have heard from many people who own them.I should have it this week,in a few days.I will post pics when i get it. =D> :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[shawnfish]

scoobeb » 17 Sep 2013, 12:07[/url]"]Chevyrules i 'm going to have to disagree with you on the mercs,every merc i have ever owned has run flawlessly.I do love yamaha to.All the major brands of motors are built the same today,they are all built to last.If you want to get down to it,tohatsu makes more motors then anyone else,they build for merc,nissan,evinrude and of course themselves.

All the mercs and yamahas i have owned run awesome when i owned them but for the best deal tohatsu is the best for the money,i really don't want a carbed outboard though,the only carbed outboard i would even consider is a 20hp 4stroke merc because of the ratchet tilt system,it's to me untouchable and the greatest feature on a portable outboard,all tiller outboards should have that system.

all the major brands built today are built the same? built to last? :lol: LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there has not been an portable (40hp and under) outboard made that was built to last in 25 yrs or so..

 

[scoobeb]

All outboards from one time or another will break down,If you expect to buy an outboard and never have an issue with it thats never going to happen,built to last means it will run for a long time but all outboards no matter what brand you get will have issues from time to to time from wear and tear.I bet this outboard i'm buying will last over 25yrs if taken care of.You also have to look at most people and how they care for their motor,if you neglect it and never flush it or do the maintenance of course it's not going to last,but if you take good care of it and do all the proper maintenace it will last for a long long time.

Will a brand new car last for a long time if taken care of,sure will unless it's a lemon.Most if not all the outboards of today are built to last just like a car(BIG KEY=====IF PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF),.They were built on the car motor idea,look at the hondas and most of the suzukis they are built on their car motors,yes they must alter the parts i'm sure to withstand the marine world(salt).I would almost bet anything a properly maintained 4stroke or 2stroke outboard would last easily well over 5000 hrs,thats allot of yrs and to me thats built to last.

Also you say no motors were built to last in over 25yrs,what about the 25hp 2stroke merc,bulletproof,to me all the yamaha and merc motors of the 90's and 2000's were bulletproof,Again if well taken care of.

The reason motors don't last is people abuse them and beat the crap out of them and never maintain them.That is the only reason they won't last,like i said unless you just get unlucky and get a problem motor which today is very rare.I bet out of all the major brands of outboards,i would guess that 1 to 2% have any issues,give or take a point or 2.

The technology today is way advanced then it was yrs ago.Look at the optimax's and the etecs,they are built to last.I don't know if you have had alot of issues with todays outboards but todays outboards are built to last,one more time(IF TAKEN CARE OF).

 

[shawnfish]

scoobeb » Yesterday, 15:44[/url]"]All outboards from one time or another will break down,If you expect to buy an outboard and never have an issue with it thats never going to happen,built to last means it will run for a long time but all outboards no matter what brand you get will have issues from time to to time from wear and tear.I bet this outboard i'm buying will last over 25yrs if taken care of.You also have to look at most people and how they care for their motor,if you neglect it and never flush it or do the maintenance of course it's not going to last,but if you take good care of it and do all the proper maintenace it will last for a long long time.

Will a brand new car last for a long time if taken care of,sure will unless it's a lemon.Most if not all the outboards of today are built to last just like a car(BIG KEY=====IF PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF),.They were built on the car motor idea,look at the hondas and most of the suzukis they are built on their car motors,yes they must alter the parts i'm sure to withstand the marine world(salt).I would almost bet anything a properly maintained 4stroke or 2stroke outboard would last easily well over 5000 hrs,thats allot of yrs and to me thats built to last.

Also you say no motors were built to last in over 25yrs,what about the 25hp 2stroke merc,bulletproof,to me all the yamaha and merc motors of the 90's and 2000's were bulletproof,Again if well taken care of.

The reason motors don't last is people abuse them and beat the crap out of them and never maintain them.That is the only reason they won't last,like i said unless you just get unlucky and get a problem motor which today is very rare.I bet out of all the major brands of outboards,i would guess that 1 to 2% have any issues,give or take a point or 2.

The technology today is way advanced then it was yrs ago.Look at the optimax's and the etecs,they are built to last.I don't know if you have had alot of issues with todays outboards but todays outboards are built to last,one more time(IF TAKEN CARE OF).

when I think built to last, to me that means it was built to take a lickin and keep on tickin when you ride it hard and put it to bed wet. kinda like the energizer bunny, it just keeps going and going and going... and in the case of outboards there is only one family of small portables (40hp and under) that can wear that badge, that would be the OMC's built roughly from 1960 to 1990 with the exception of a couple different hp models for a couple years. I know lots of guys(myself included) who own these motors who have had them for a long time and all they do is change the oil and put new plugs in them and they will start and run year after year after year. my motor was bought new in 1980 by my grandpa who in turn gave it to me when he was not able to use it any more due to age and I know for a fact that all he or myself has ever done to this motor is change the lower unit oil and put new plugs in and besides a year or so ago has never had one thing on it replaced besides the skeg when I hit something on the river, and that's when I replaced it along with the impeller,housing and fuel pump because I cracked the old pump by getting the bolts too tight after taking it off and putting it on wich is my fault, I should not have had it off in the first place and this is just one example. this generation design of outboards for the most part did not change for 30yrs because they got it right the first time so why fix something that is not broke. you say todays technology is far more advanced and that is why outboards will last a very long time if properly maintained wich may be true but like I said built to last to me means built to last, not built to last as long as you replace parts etc,,,, that break or get worn out because they do not last and the old OMC's are the only ones who fit that billing. remember sometimes simple is far better than complicated and when you build something with more links in the chain to fail so to speak the chances are better that one of those links is going to fail and then your chain is useless......take a look around when your on the water and you don't see 20-50 yr old outboards that don't have Johnson/evinrude on the covers, theyre easy to spot because there are thousands of them out there still lasting........

 

[scoobeb]

Well imo i believe the outboards today are way better built then the motors of past,the motors get better gas milage,run quieter,have dfi or most of the newer motors have efi.I never said the motors of old are bad,i just think the motors of today,again if taken care of will last forever,or as long as you own them.I don't like any one brand of outboards but i will say in my experience i have had nothing but horrible luck with evinrude/johnson.I know more people probally own those outboards more then any other to.I don't think their a junk brand,i just have owned 5 of those motors and all 5 broke down within a mth or 2,If i had to buy a 25hp to 30hp today it would be an etec hands down,i have owned a few 25hp 2stroke mercs from the 90's and 2000's and i have never had one issue with any of them,i love yamaha and tohatsu to.The best motor i have ever owned was a 9.8hp 2stroke tohatsu,bulletproof.

All i can do is take extra care of this suzuki and i have no doubt it will last many many yrs with no issues.I love 2strokes but the 4strokes are getting lighter and lighter today and the have efi or dfi.The suzuki is only 106lbs and efi.I have never actually run a 4stroke on the back of a boat and i can't wait to.

 

[scoobeb]

Well here she is,brand new in the box.

 

[RAMROD]

Are the butterflies eating you up?

 

[scoobeb]

You know it RAMROD.In about a week i will be on the water.I read the whole manual,low and behold you can use any fcw oil and if thats not available then you can use any sae certified motor oil.They suggest 10w40 for all around use.The breakin is not as bad as i thought.This book for breaking in is well updated from the book of old.Basically you need to take it easy for the first few hrs and then you need to vary the rpms up and down for the following 7hrs.It does state not to do wot for more then 5mins at a time.Basically i have thought this is the way to do it all along,it does say you can open it up to get on plane but to then cut it back to like half throttle.

I have alot of work to do on my boat.

 

[RAMROD]

Awesome!
You are giving me the itch awful bad! I went and put my hands on a NIB 20 Tohatsu and am trying to hold off till I sell some things, not sure I will be able to when you start posting your stats!

 

[shawnfish]

scoobeb » 24 Sep 2013, 19:14[/url]"]Well imo i believe the outboards today are way better built then the motors of past,the motors get better gas milage,run quieter,have dfi or most of the newer motors have efi.I never said the motors of old are bad,i just think the motors of today,again if taken care of will last forever,or as long as you own them.I don't like any one brand of outboards but i will say in my experience i have had nothing but horrible luck with evinrude/johnson.I know more people probally own those outboards more then any other to.I don't think their a junk brand,i just have owned 5 of those motors and all 5 broke down within a mth or 2,If i had to buy a 25hp to 30hp today it would be an etec hands down,i have owned a few 25hp 2stroke mercs from the 90's and 2000's and i have never had one issue with any of them,i love yamaha and tohatsu to.The best motor i have ever owned was a 9.8hp 2stroke tohatsu,bulletproof.

All i can do is take extra care of this suzuki and i have no doubt it will last many many yrs with no issues.I love 2strokes but the 4strokes are getting lighter and lighter today and the have efi or dfi.The suzuki is only 106lbs and efi.I have never actually run a 4stroke on the back of a boat and i can't wait to.

right on man, I can respect that but lets just say we'll agree to disagree I just like the KISS theory. ive never had any experience with anything but johnny/rudes and they haven't let me down yet. that's a pretty sweet lookin lil rice burner ya got there, kinda interested in hearing how it works for you. on a side note... if I were to ever buy a brand new(who knows,even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while) 25-40hp I would buy an evinrude without a second thought and having said this I know absolutely nothing about post early 90's motors but I like the brand. why do you like the e-tecs so much? just curious..

 

[scoobeb]

I like the power to weight ratio and the fact there is no breakin.This is why i say imho opinion what makes the etec any different in technology from the 4strokes besides the fact that it's a dfi and a 2stroke.I just don't believe the 4strokes need a long breakin like the book says,to my suprise,the suzuki manual is not what i thought it would be,to me it's actually more up to date then any other manual i have ever read in the past.Finally a motor brand who says you don't and shouldn't baby your outboard on breakin.The manual is imo the way all motors should be broke in.

I just like the power of the 25hp etec, i have watched hundreds if not thousands of hrs on youtube of the 25/30hp etec and it's a beast of an outboard.I really like this suzuki also,this is my first.I can't wait to get it on the water.I'm fixing my trailer now and putting a floor in my boat.Just a piece of half inch plywood,carpeted in the front and back.I'm not going to do anything special to this boat because this is just a temp boat for a yr or 2.

 

[PATRIOT]

Since you've got it in your hot little hands =D> . . . can you verify whether or not it has a MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor?
Maybe from the parts breakdown or a shot from under the cowl?
Also, does it have an aux 12V output anywhere to power nav lights?

 

[scoobeb]

I will let you know,i haven't taken it out of the box yet,i'm working on my trailer first,then getting the boat done,then i will mount the motor on last.

 

[RAMROD]

Hurry up!!! Lol
Cant wait to hear some reviews!

 

[scoobeb]

Darn it i knew i should of waited just a bit.Yamaha has a 6yr warranty deal going and suzuki has $200 rebate on the 20hp i just bought,oh well.

 

[ducktrooper]

Let us know when you test that 20 HP suzuki. What I like about them is the are about 20 lbs lighter than comparable Merc or Tohatsu....97 lbs. for the manual and a few more for electric version. That makes a big difference if you're constantly having to live cowling up to shallow drive setting when coming into shallow water or navigating rocks, shoals, etc.

I love the gear in handle feature of the Merc..never have to use 2 hands or turn your back/eyes away from out front. Always a trade off but I've read great things about Suzuki on other forums.

 

[scoobeb]

Yes i love the merc to,that is what i wanted forever.That was the motor i had my heart set on till this suzuki came out last yr.The merc is awesome to me,built in tiller handle for all functions,the ratchet tilt system is the best idea anyone has come up with on a tiller portable to me.The suzuki i have is an elec start at 106lbs,efi,and the price of a new manual merc was more then an elec start suzuki i paid for,so it was a no brainer after doing over a yr of research.It was tough in the beginning but as i read more and more on the suzuki it became clear this was and has been a no brainer,i just had my mind set on the merc for so long thats what steered me away from the suzuki.

 

[scoobeb]

Well i 'm moving up slowly,finally got it out of the box,i wanted to see how hard it would be to change the oil,you need to take the whole right side(were the fuel filter is) of the motor off,not to bad,very easy as a matter of fact,i called a suzuki dealer to see how much it would be to change the oil for kicks,they told me $75,i said are you kidding me it takes less then 10 minutes to do it.The oil is only $8 bucks and the filter is like $6 to $8 depends on were you go.They must be out of their mind.I can change my oil almost 6 times for that price.

Anyway it's only 5 screws you need to undo and the side pops off easy,remove the rubber gasket were you can work on just the side your on,remove the red tube and black tube going to the gas,right next to eachother,move the fuel filter out of the way and wallah the oil filter sits right under the round cap,3 bolts hold it in.


P.S MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A PERFECT FIT SCREWDRIVER FOR THE SCREWS BECAUSE THEY WILL STRIP EASY,I LEARNED THE HARD WAY.You can use a ratchet for some of the screws also that are easy to get to.Thats what i would use as the screws are extremely soft and one wrong move and it's stripped.Just fig if someone wanted change their oil and save a ton of money here is the way,if anyone has one and needs further help let me know,it's very simple.If it were me i would change the oil at least 2 to 3 times on breakin to get as much or all the metal particles out of the oil,goes for the lower unit also,Just imo.

For my first 3 oil changes(10hr breakin)i'm going to use royal purple breakin oil for the engine and just good old reg super tech lower unit oil for the lower unit.After i finish the breakin i will swith over to full synthetic royal purple engine and lower unit oil.Then do an oil change every 50hrs or so.

SORRY I'M VERY ANAL ABOUT MAINTENANCE.Better to be safe then sorry.